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View Diary: How do I say this without seeming anti-Semitic? (267 comments)

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  •  I wrote it for the record (6+ / 0-)

    There are many comments copied in here that give examples of issues that we might adjudicate.  The "payoff" of the diary is: how would we adjudicate these?

    In my avatar, the blue bars show how many want Reps who COMPROMISE; the aqua bars show who wants Reps who STAND FAST no matter what. (Left=Overall; Center=Democrats; Right=Republicans.) And there's the problem!

    by Seneca Doane on Tue Sep 20, 2011 at 09:22:21 PM PDT

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    •  To me this diary is not anti-semitic (6+ / 0-)

      I have a diary up now regarding the Air Force's policy review of its ethics and leadership training, training which had a decidedly Christian slant.

      Did I write an anti-Christian diary because I stated I oppose using the US military to promote Christianity?

      Under these so-called proposed rules of engagement, perhaps I did.

      In my mind I did not.  The diary related facts regarding the use (misuse and abuse I would call it) of Christian beliefs and values to indoctrinate members of the military into accepting a fringe belief system regarding the teaching of Jesus in violation of the Constitution.

      Yet, to some people (probably not many here at Dkos) I would be considered anti-Christian.

      I believe we will not resolve issues at Dkos regarding anti-semitism in comments or in diaries posted by the system that has been proposed.

      Why do I say that?  Because people here (and elsewhere) define anti-semitic behavior by differing standards.  There is no single accepted definition for anti-semitism, or a defined criteria for what constitutes an anti-semitic comment or diary.  Until we are all speaking the same language, i.e., we all accept what does and does not constitute anti-semitism any process that allows the community at large to judge a person's statements or remarks is an exercise in both futlity and possibly censorship.

      For some individuals here any criticism of the policies of the Israeli government is sufficient to meet their standard.  Others have a looser definition, but the crux of the matter is that this is a topic that the community at large (and yes I know this is a generalization) does not make based solely on objective, rational arguments and/or facts.  It is a topic that clouds by emotional reactions, and in many cases very deep and strongly felt emotions.

      This is one reason I rarely participate in IP diaries, nor do I post them anymore though I have my opinions regarding the Israeli government's policies regarding the Palestinians and the United States close ties and involvement with Israel.  The simple truth is that any diary expressing discontent with Israel will bring a charge from someone here that the diarist is anti-semitic.

      This is not a problem merely with diaries about Israel.  For example, you see the same reflexive emotional responses by some people in the RBKA community to any diary that seeks to discuss the role of guns and proposals to regulate gun ownership.  And I don't mean to pick on that community, because the same can be said for any self-defined group here.  It is hard enough to have a civil discussion on many issues simply because as a diverse community, we do not always agree on many issues, and for some any disagreement is tantamount to an attack on their core beliefs.

      What concerns me is that if Dkos move to a Community based system allows members to "punish" contributors here, diarists and those who post comments that goes beyond the current system, inevitably certain people will be banned based on the extreme reaction to their views by a minority of active members.  Others will simply avoid these so-called hot-button topics (race, immigration, gun control, IP, etc.) or simply leave the site altogether as not worth their time and effort.  

      The end result will be a more bland version of Dkos with fewer and a less robust and diverse discussion of many important and significant political issues.  Perhaps that;s what the community, collectively, wants.  I for one, do not.

      "If you tell the truth, you'll eventually be found out." Mark Twain

      by Steven D on Wed Sep 21, 2011 at 06:21:00 AM PDT

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      •  Pardon my grammatical errors. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        angry marmot, Seneca Doane

        Should have proof read before posting.

        "If you tell the truth, you'll eventually be found out." Mark Twain

        by Steven D on Wed Sep 21, 2011 at 06:24:51 AM PDT

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      •  I was pretty confident that the diary was not (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Steven D, soysauce, RageKage, Wood Dragon

        anti-Semitic.  However, if I had included only sections 2 and/or 3, criticizing the Brooklyn Orthodox community and/or those who want the U.S. to veto Palestinian statehood, I think it might be taken as such.

        As you recognize, though, the thrust of this diary is not to focus on I/P, but on how we will deal with I/P under a new moderation regime.  I too think that a pure "community adjudication" system that is not advisory will drive people off -- some removed from the community in disgust, some on slabs.

        This is a much more productive discussion than I could have hoped for -- again, in publishing something of this length I did not expect to make the Rec List -- and I truly hope that it is useful for Markos and his crew.

        In my avatar, the blue bars show how many want Reps who COMPROMISE; the aqua bars show who wants Reps who STAND FAST no matter what. (Left=Overall; Center=Democrats; Right=Republicans.) And there's the problem!

        by Seneca Doane on Wed Sep 21, 2011 at 08:05:24 AM PDT

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