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View Diary: The Left Drops the Ball (244 comments)

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  •  The problem here is that right off the bat... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Stuart Heady, Rick Aucoin

    ...the "mission statement" is almost laughably wrong. There are a whole hell of a lot of people in the 99% who aren't getting foreclosed on, have medical care, are employed, etc. Hell, many of the are wealthy by any reasonable standard.

    I'd like to see this movement succeed. But if we're going to into battle with such undeniably inaccurate rhetoric and call it 'clarity' then we're not going to get very far.

    It's not that OWS needs 'clear cut demands.' It's that they need more than vague notions and sloppy populist rhetoric if there's going to be a lasting impact.

    I'm a concert pianist with a double doctorate... AND YOU CAN BE TOO!

    by kenlac on Sat Oct 01, 2011 at 11:12:21 AM PDT

    •  I can't decide if this comment is snark, (7+ / 0-)

      a sincere but confused effort to offer some guidance, or if the Grey Poupon dripped into the commenter's keyboard. Not being insulting (yet), just not sure.

      Occupy Wall Street. Occupy Main Street. Occupy everything. Force a tsunami of change on the nation.

      by Black Max on Sat Oct 01, 2011 at 11:15:41 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  This is not in the least snark. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Stuart Heady

        And trust me, 'luxury' mustard is not on my shopping list at the moment.

        If I really have to go deep explaining that the concepts of the poor, the struggling middle class, the upper middle class and the 1% have all been munged up here then people really just aren't paying decent attention.

        I'm a concert pianist with a double doctorate... AND YOU CAN BE TOO!

        by kenlac on Sat Oct 01, 2011 at 11:20:09 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Why do you need to do all that explaining (5+ / 0-)

          and codifying right now?

          People are pissed off and frustrated enough to take to the streets to fight for economic fairness. That's enough for now.

          Occupy Wall Street. Occupy Main Street. Occupy everything. Force a tsunami of change on the nation.

          by Black Max on Sat Oct 01, 2011 at 11:24:07 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Short answer: lasting impact (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Stuart Heady, Rick Aucoin

            Long answer: other things get munged up too, like whether given pundit or critic will recognize the distinctions between demanding 'codifying' immediately, using lack of it as an excuse to dismiss, or properly noting that some will have to come about eventually or things will fizzle out.

            As far as my own views go, I've come around to thinking that (a) there is a lot of vagueness in the public mind, and that seemed initially like a flaw to me (b) it's turning out to not be as much as of flaw as I thought (c) things are evolving well and (d) many of the movements most ardent supporters are operating under a delusion of self-evident 'clarity' which is holding things back.

            Here's a question for everyone (including myself): once you've got people's attention, what do you do with it? I believe too many people think getting attention is the goal. If what you do with people's attention is vague, unfocused, or off-putting, then you lose that attention very quickly.

            So, I retrospect I'm all for the 'hippies' throwing themselves into the fray, however chaotically. But that doesn't mean all crit from the left is not legitimate. Some of it is, other bits aren't.

            I'm a concert pianist with a double doctorate... AND YOU CAN BE TOO!

            by kenlac on Sat Oct 01, 2011 at 11:38:09 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  ...or, to answer your question more directly: (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Rick Aucoin

            OWS probably doesn't have to do as much explaining as some of the critics from the left demand. But at the same time they probably have to do more than they themselves think they do, and the explaining they are doing probably isn't as clear as they think it is.

            I'm a concert pianist with a double doctorate... AND YOU CAN BE TOO!

            by kenlac on Sat Oct 01, 2011 at 11:42:15 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Not really. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Black Max

              Let's make it simple:

              Level Wall Street.  Turn the entire length of the street, to the depth of every building currently fronting (addressed) on the Street into a park with a pretty brick terrace walk down the center.  The demolition and replanting can be financed by the nationalization/seizure of all assets held by those firms, and the planting itself can be done as community service work by the former CEO's.

              Seized assets to be evaluated by a special agency of forensic accountants out of Treasury, who can assign them either to be repatriated to the most interested parties (debtors, workers, etc.), maintained as income-producing property by the Treasury to fund social mitigation programs, or sold (if both productive and non-toxic) to cooperatives representing the actual stakeholders in the asset.  Funds to be set aside for assisting the City of New York in the long-term economic adjustment to finding a productive source of core income and reducing the excessive population originally attracted to service Wall Street money.

              I think you could get an 80% or so sign-on to that much.

    •  I think if you add up the amount of people (7+ / 0-)

      Unemployed, Underemployed, in foreclosure, foreclosed upon, one paycheck from the street and without medical insurance...add close family members you have a HUGE chunk of society.

      I am somewhere in the 80th percentile of income, yet I am upside down on my condo and walking away, and I have four family members  unemployed, one I support, two I give odd jobs to for money.

      I  think this resonates with far  more people than  you would think.

      #Occupy Wallstreet - Politicians will not support the movement until it is too big to fail.

      by Sychotic1 on Sat Oct 01, 2011 at 12:37:36 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  This is an old argument from another context (0+ / 0-)

      It was often used against the Kennedy family and others from my generation who were rich but who had the passion and the energy to fight with and for the poor. It goes something like, "How the hell can the Kennedy's possibly know...!"  The late Ted Kennedy had such a fire of justice burning in his soul and he perservered throughout the years in screaming for justice and equality for the exploited and the poor on the senate floor.  While it is true that the poor, the students and the unemployed (the expendable humans) know the injustice the most and will inspire and propel us toward the changes that are inevitable, do not rule out those who have the same passions and compassion who can and do stand in solidarity, even though they are not the true victims of unchecked vulture capitalism.

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