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View Diary: Corruption scandal brewing at Clinton State Dept. over Tar Sands Review (246 comments)

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  •  Read this post (5+ / 0-)

    Gasoline made from the tar sands gives a Toyota Prius the same impact on climate as a Hummer using gasoline made from oil. ~ Al Gore

    by Lefty Coaster on Tue Oct 04, 2011 at 09:50:58 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Yes, I don't doubt that there is that angle (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Escamillo

      just saying, do we want the refining to be done in our country, or someplace else?  With a chance that that "someplace else" is going to have even laxer environment standards than Texas?

      •  Where will they go? (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        aliasalias, esquimaux, dewley notid

        People in B.C. are already up in arms about the possibility of pipeline construction, and the proposed route crosses several First Nations reserves and those tribal governments are dead set against any pipeline crossing their lands.

        Gasoline made from the tar sands gives a Toyota Prius the same impact on climate as a Hummer using gasoline made from oil. ~ Al Gore

        by Lefty Coaster on Tue Oct 04, 2011 at 10:06:39 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  if it's not done here it will not be done (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        aliasalias, esquimaux

        somewhere else...see above.

        •  See above where? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Escamillo

          Anyways, the Chinese are investing Mega$$ in the Oil Sands:  China invests billions in Canada oil sands

          I suspect they know more than you or I about the prospects of getting the product shipped back home . . .   there are several options how to do that even besides any new pipeline(s) (there already are several pipelines across BC, seethis map).

          They could also ship it by rail . . . From the NYTs: Oil Sands Project in Canada Will Go On if Pipeline Is Blocked

          •  Why liquidate our climate for a few jobs?? (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            aliasalias, dewley notid

            Gasoline made from the tar sands gives a Toyota Prius the same impact on climate as a Hummer using gasoline made from oil. ~ Al Gore

            by Lefty Coaster on Tue Oct 04, 2011 at 10:23:46 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Talk about missing the point . . . (0+ / 0-)

              which is, since the jobs are going to exist * someplace * no matter what, why not have them here in the USA?

              •  No THAT is the point the jobs are hardly worth (3+ / 0-)

                mentioning in the larger scheme of things.

                You just don't get that do you?

                Gasoline made from the tar sands gives a Toyota Prius the same impact on climate as a Hummer using gasoline made from oil. ~ Al Gore

                by Lefty Coaster on Tue Oct 04, 2011 at 10:38:22 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Sure, tens of thousands of $90K jobs aren't (0+ / 0-)

                  worth having, whatever.  

                  Why we're giving gifts like this to Canada is mindboggling (saying that as someone who hates Texas almost as much!!).

                  •  So you're using inflated industry job projections (6+ / 0-)

                    that were shown to be false.

                    tens of thousands of $90K jobs

                    You've just destroyed what little credibility you had.

                    Proposed pipeline could cost jobs, not create them

                    Claims of job creation by the TransCanada Corp. Keystone XL Pipeline are inflated at best and misleading at worst, according to a new report by the ILR Global Labor Institute (GLI) posted on its website.

                    The report, "Pipe Dreams? Jobs Gained, Jobs Lost by the Construction of Keystone XL," notes that the project may actually kill more jobs than it creates.

                    The proposed pipeline would transport oil extracted from Canadian tar sands in Alberta, Canada, to the Gulf of Mexico in Texas. The U.S. Department of State is reviewing the proposal and, along with President Obama, must determine if the project is in the national interest.

                    "This report questions the jobs claims promoted by TransCanada Corp., the American Petroleum Institute and other proponents of the pipeline. The report's findings should generate a high level of skepticism regarding the value of the Keystone pipeline as an important source of American jobs," said Sean Sweeney, GLI director. "It is GLI's assessment that the construction of Keystone XL will create far fewer jobs in the U.S. than its proponents have claimed and may actually destroy more jobs than it generates."

                    For example, job projections by TransCanada and the American Petroleum Institute fail to consider the large number of jobs that could be lost. Midwest consumers could lose jobs due to paying 10 to 20 cents more per gallon of gasoline and diesel fuel, as Keystone diverts oil from refineries in the Midwest to the Gulf region.

                    Gasoline made from the tar sands gives a Toyota Prius the same impact on climate as a Hummer using gasoline made from oil. ~ Al Gore

                    by Lefty Coaster on Tue Oct 04, 2011 at 11:22:13 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Did you think that one through? (0+ / 0-)

                      What I was talking about was direct jobs related to processing the oil, which would stay in Canada rather than be exported to the USA.

                      What you are talking about is some nebulous claim that increased petroleum prices costs jobs.  If you buy into that RW meme (the Drill Baby Drill mindset), that's really scary (actually, I don't think you do, I suspect you simply didn't think that through adequately .  . . since most studies show that shifting away from petroleum based energy actually increases jobs in the long run - which is exactly what I argued for at the top of this sub-thread - namely, that the way to get off of fossil fuels is through diminishing demand and not going after supply).  

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