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View Diary: Democratic Senator To MORE IT Workers: No More Pay For Your Overtime Work (262 comments)

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  •  Bullcrap on that transfer garbage. (14+ / 0-)

    Programming logic doesn't change even if the language does. Yes, you'd need to get some retraining, but if you were a good java programmer before, you'd be a good C programmer with a bit of training time. And you've then got a loyal, motivated employee.

    What makes a good programmer isn't an understanding of the coding syntax - it's a good analytical mind, creativity, and an ability to find errors and know how to fix them.

    Those things are way more important than any particular knowledge of a particular language.

    Besides that - the first programming language is always hard. The second is easier. The third easier still. You're not starting from scratch after the first one - they all have a lot of similarities.

    Hardware and systems people would be different, but again - the concepts don't change.

    •  re-training.. sure.. (0+ / 0-)

      No.. you are let go and the company has a programmer in place the next day who is up to speed.  You think they are going to keep you for 6 months to a year while you "re-train"?

      Actually, these days your job probably goes to some outfit in India who lowballs every bid and pays their geeks $5/hr - if they're lucky.

      •  Up to speed? (8+ / 0-)

        I have been on projects where the warm up time (i.e., getting to understand the basis of the project) was three months for anyone starting from scratch, even with the programming skills.

        I worked for a small private Swiss bank as a freelancer, where we came to the agreement that they would pay for training in a new language, while I did not charge for my time while training. Funnily, it worked out to be same amount of money, within a few dollars.

        I have to agree with mmacdDE, as I now program in 6 different languages, and learning a new language is little more than a mild inconvenience.

        FOSI: Full Of Shit Information - Both my sister and I are trivia freaks...

        by Spoc42 on Mon Dec 12, 2011 at 08:48:50 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  asdf (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Unit Zero, Timaeus, Spoc42, progdog

          "I have to agree with mmacdDE, as I now program in 6 different languages, and learning a new language is little more than a mild inconvenience."

          Thank you sooooo much for saying that!!!  I've had more than one HR get their knickers in a twist claiming that Java is soo different than Cobol and therefore I'm not qualified (academic courses in Java - 13 years Cobol/PL/I).  Yeah, there are some differences in syntax, but the core logic is the same.

      •  They will absolutely keep you while you re-train (4+ / 0-)

        I can personally attest to this: I am a software developer, and I have been repurposed for multiple projects by my current employer over the last two years.  On one occasion that required learning a new programming language.  It took a few weeks.  Another time I had to learn about an entirely new technology area.  They plopped me on that project with no training, and I was productive in less than a month.  Programming is absolutely a general skill, and it would have cost far more to find someone to replace me, train them in the technology area, introduce them to corporate culture, and hope that they are at least as dependable and skilled and hardworking as me.  That's a HUGE cost and risk.  Replacing skilled employees is incredibly difficult.  I know, because I've been involved in the hiring process too.  Employees in IT and software development are not plug-and-play.

        Now, it is true that a lot of software development is now being outsourced to India, but most of the truly critical work is still being done in the US, and programmers are in high demand.  I don't think you need to shed so many tears for us for a few years yet.

        •  Outsourcing to India? (11+ / 0-)

          I worked for a small private Swiss bank which outsourced a development project to India because it would only cost a million, instead of the 2 million it would have cost to develop in-house. On delivery, it was completely useless. A project group was created to correct the problem, writing documents that had to describe every field and step along the way at an incredible level of detail.

          A programming team was sent over from India to make the final changes. They were able to scramble the source files of a number of other projects (including mine). Fortunately in my case, I had printed out the source codes with the changes marked, so I could just retype the changes. Others were not so lucky.

          Cost for original "development" = $1M
          Cost for corrections + retyping screw-ups = 1.6M
          Watching the boss's faces when they realised how much money they had "saved" = priceless!

          FOSI: Full Of Shit Information - Both my sister and I are trivia freaks...

          by Spoc42 on Mon Dec 12, 2011 at 09:17:06 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

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