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  •  for some additional resources on Finnish Education (4+ / 0-)

    "what the best and wisest parent wants for his child is what we should want for all the children of the community" - John Dewey

    by teacherken on Thu Dec 29, 2011 at 05:21:36 AM PST

    •  RELATIVE teacher pay. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Mariken
      Finnish teacher compensation seems about average for the US (which is to say considerably more generous than some states, considerably less generous than others). The relative salary is higher because other professionals such as lawyers and doctors earn less in Finland than do their US equivalents.

      http://thinkprogress.org/...

      This likely contributes to the ability of the Finnish teacher profession to attract more of the top college grads.

      Implication for USA: we need to make our teacher pay more closely resemble what our doctors and lawyers make.

      "The true strength of our nation comes not from the might of our arms or the scale of our wealth, but from the enduring power of our ideals." - Barack Obama

      by HeyMikey on Thu Dec 29, 2011 at 06:09:39 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  it is not just pay (7+ / 0-)

        there are nations where teacher pay is higher within the range of occupations in the country - S. Korea for example.

        The pay is decent.

        Teachers do not enter the profession with debts from their education, since all education through a doctorate is free.  

        Teachers are treated as professionals.

        Teachers have a fair amount of control over how they teach.

        The profession is greatly respected.

        You are unlikely in Finland to hear variants of those who can do, those who can't teach.  

        Working conditions are far better than they are in most American public schools.

        Administrators have to be qualified to teach in the schools they run, and many still teach part-time.

        Teachers and their unions are not targeted by outside forces the way they are here.

        "what the best and wisest parent wants for his child is what we should want for all the children of the community" - John Dewey

        by teacherken on Thu Dec 29, 2011 at 06:37:35 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  All that plus... (0+ / 0-)

          Sure. All that is important; I certainly don't disagree. But I don't think we can rule out paying people more as a way to attract better people, either.

          That's not at all a slam at current US teachers. My family is full of current and retired elementary, middle, and high school teachers. But counting on altruism to attract enough of the best and brightest is not a plan that's likely to work on a large scale.

          Completely coincidentally, I ran across this great graph a few minutes ago, showing a strong correlation between teacher pay and student performance. The correlation is not 1-to-1 because (a) it omits all those other factors you cite, and (b) because it omits the relative-pay factor I cited. But even so, the correlation is pretty strong:
          http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/...

          "The true strength of our nation comes not from the might of our arms or the scale of our wealth, but from the enduring power of our ideals." - Barack Obama

          by HeyMikey on Thu Dec 29, 2011 at 09:56:00 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  NBA salaries (0+ / 0-)
        Top point guard salaries: 1. Jason Kidd, Dallas, $21.37million. 2. Stephen Marbury, N.Y. Knicks, $20.8million, 3. Mike Bibby, Atlanta, $14.98million, 4. Gilbert Arenas, Washington, $14.65million. 5. Steve Nash, Phoenix, $12.25million.

        Top shooting guard salaries: 1. Kobe Bryant, LA Lakers, $21.26million. 2. Allen Iverson, Detroit, $20.84million. 3. Tracy McGrady, $20.37million. 4. Ray Allen, Boston, $18.39million. 5. Joe Johnson, Atlanta, $14.23million. Charlotte Observer

        Read more: http://www.insidehoops.com/...

    •  Sahlberg (0+ / 0-)

      What is the approximate average total annual teaching time in 60-minute hours of lower secondary school teachers in Finland?

      ~1800 ?
      ~1600 ?
      ~1450 ?
      ~1150 ?
      ~ 950 ?
      ~ 725 ?

      see page 26 for the answer

      Applicants to primary school teacher education 2001-10

      What percentage of them got accepted?

      ~35% ?
      ~26% ?
      ~18% ?
      ~10% ?

      see page 36 for the answer

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