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View Diary: Sea Ice Death Spiral Driving Atlantic Water into Arctic Causing Wild Weather (197 comments)

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  •  Nice effort (20+ / 0-)

    With coupled atmospheric-ocean circulation processes cause and effect can not be readily separated.

    This December's positive NAO is tied to warm winds, currents and waters off of Norway. The previous 2 years negative NAO in December was tied to warm winds, currents and waters off of Greenland.

    I don't know how to separate cause and effect in this situation. What I know is that the warming of the north Atlantic is causing more extreme weather from North America to Europe.

    look for my eSci diary series Thursday evening.

    by FishOutofWater on Fri Jan 20, 2012 at 07:08:18 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  thanks for all the work on this (7+ / 0-)

      and I wish I could say it was all a surprise. It looks to my non-technical eye as if what was posited 30 years ago is happening -- hotter hots, colder colds, more violent extremes.

      We always thought that corporate and political awareness would kick in when it started affecting the bottom line, but so far there hasn't been much, even after things like hurricane losses to the insurance industry.

      The human capacity for self-delusion, coupled with the corporate capacity for obfuscation, seems boundless.

      Listen, are you breathing just a little and calling it a life? -- Mary Oliver

      by Mnemosyne on Fri Jan 20, 2012 at 09:55:12 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  We may still see (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Mnemosyne, Lujane, mightymouse

        a battle between the insurance industry and the fossil fuel industry over this. I guess that it's just not bad enough yet

        •  you may be right, alas (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Lujane, offgrid, mightymouse

          Another too-little too-late corporate whing-ding and fandango, complete with massed PR facilities at dawn.

          It all reminds me of Detroit when small cars began cutting into their market -- "those little cars like the VW Beetle are never going to sell here, real Americans want BIG cars, with tailfins."

          Only this time there's a lot more at stake than a few quarterly dividends.

          Listen, are you breathing just a little and calling it a life? -- Mary Oliver

          by Mnemosyne on Fri Jan 20, 2012 at 12:31:04 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  at a conference last week (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          Someone called the failure to deal with the realities of climate change the greatest market failure in the history of capitalism.  I think they may be right. Though I also think that here and there in the corporate world more attention is being paid.

          •  There is a simple market fix (0+ / 0-)

            CO2 is the waste product of fossil fuel usage. If the cost of waste disposal of CO2 was given a price tag, and incorporated into the "cost of doing business", products that produce the waste would get more expensive, and become uncompetitive with products (energy in this case) that don't produce this waste product.

            All this is about is proper expense accounting, and the solution is pure "free-market" economics.

    •  All of this (0+ / 0-)

      makes it even more inconceivable that oil rigs in the Arctic would have any chance of relying on safe conditions for drilling--as if they ever did anyway.

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