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View Diary: Video of NYPD Breaking into Ramarley Graham's Home Prior to Murdering Him (195 comments)

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  •  Oh, I couldn't disagree with you more. (10+ / 0-)
    There's no such thing as a good cop.

    And I don't think you're being fair at all.  Have you met every cop in the country? Have you observed all their behaviors and how they do their job?

    Come on.  That's not fair of you to say.

    We delivered. They failed us. We have moved on. (h/t to my good friend)

    by gooderservice on Mon Feb 06, 2012 at 08:46:50 PM PST

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    •  I'm tired of repeating this (30+ / 0-)

      Until the good cops step forward and turn in the bad ones the horror will continue.

      That has not happened, ergo there are no good cops.

      Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance.

      by Horace Boothroyd III on Mon Feb 06, 2012 at 08:57:45 PM PST

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      •  I have a very good friend (6+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        aufklaerer, Pozzo, marina, Clio2, TiaRachel, MKinTN

        who's a police officer in a suburban community. Unless I see evidence of wrongdoing in his department, of his having known about it and of his having covered up for it, I will not presume to be able to read his mind or to judge him.

        I've known him since childhood. He is a genuinely nice guy, good-hearted, responsible, calm. The kind of guy you want to have as a cop. It's unlikely that he's going to turn into an anti-police-brutality crusader overnight, but that fact alone doesn't merit the scorn of your blanket statement, Horace.

        I say this as an admirer and sympathizer of both the Occupy movement and you as a poster and commenter: Please allow yourself to take this opportunity to follow your own sig line.

        "The great lie of democracy, its essential paradox, is that democracy is the first to be sacrificed when its security is at risk. Every state is totalitarian at heart; there are no ends to the cruelty it will go to to protect itself." -- Ian McDonald

        by Geenius at Wrok on Tue Feb 07, 2012 at 05:00:43 AM PST

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        •  Good cops notwithstanding, the police force is bad (7+ / 0-)

          I totally understand your sentiment, my daughter's mother is a cop, too. And I would like to think of her as a good person.

          But, the function the police serves today is suppressing minorities, attacking protesters, and protecting the status quo and all those benefitting from it, mainly the 1% and its underlings.

          It doesn't matter whether there are good individuals in the police force. There were good individuals in the Wehrmacht, too. The important question liberals and progressives have to answer rather looks like this:

          Is the police a part of the problem, or a part of the solution?
          Part of the problem, quite clearly, isn't it?

          "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect." Mark Twain

          by aufklaerer on Tue Feb 07, 2012 at 05:43:10 AM PST

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          •  Those are functions that the police serve (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            aufklaerer

            in some places. They certainly are not the only functions that the police serve. For one thing, they also serve the function of keeping track of gang activity in my neighborhood, where rival thugs have been shooting at each other since fall, including on a commercial street during PM rush hour. It would be nice if fewer of them were tasked with watching nonviolent protesters downtown and more of them were tasked with walking the beat in my neighborhood. I would welcome that. If you were my neighbor, you might wish that the police would go away (and they might do so willingly, if they were being compared to the Wehrmacht). However, the gang members would not go away simply because the police had, would they?

            "The great lie of democracy, its essential paradox, is that democracy is the first to be sacrificed when its security is at risk. Every state is totalitarian at heart; there are no ends to the cruelty it will go to to protect itself." -- Ian McDonald

            by Geenius at Wrok on Tue Feb 07, 2012 at 08:11:45 AM PST

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          •  Too binary (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            TiaRachel, aufklaerer

            Life is not so simple.

          •  Yep, the police as an institution have to go. (3+ / 0-)

            It's of so little importance as to be irrelevant whether there are any "good" officers out there.

            The primary function of the police is to oppress, divide, dispossess and (when necessary) beat down and kill the working class. They are the agents of the 1%, the thugs who do their dirty work. They are responsible for making sure those with concentrated wealth and property get to keep it.

            Occasionally, when there isn't any work do to in their primary function, they may solve crimes, or help certain people in small ways, usually people from privileged groups. Often though, even in these cases, they do more harm than good with their violent, racist methods and their overwhelming subservience to the powerful.

            The politics of direct action is based, to a certain degree, on a faith that freedom is contagious. - David Graeber

            by An Affirming Flame on Tue Feb 07, 2012 at 09:13:41 AM PST

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      •  There are many, many police forces. (0+ / 0-)

        A good cop *anywhere outside the NYPD* has no influence on the NYPD (substitute any particular PD, of course).

        Even within the NYPD (for example), a good cop who isn't in an advantageous position (politically or re: chain of command) won't have the kind of influence you presume.

        Not that there isn't a whole lot wrong with 'cop culture'. But your logic is flawed (or maybe I mean the central assumption, I'm heavily brain fogged just now).

        Here's a parallel (that just happens to be on my mind):

        Until the good cops men step forward and turn in the bad ones the horror rape will continue.

        That has not happened, ergo there are no good cops men.

    •  I'm sorry, I must have missed when these (18+ / 0-)

      "good cops" go to court to testify against their fellow officers when they commit one of these cold blooded murders.  Or report the abuses that go on inside the jails and prisons.  Or even not participate in the joking around about these heinous actions.  I stand by my statement.

      We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

      by owilde69 on Mon Feb 06, 2012 at 08:59:57 PM PST

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      •  whenever there is a shooting of a police officer (5+ / 0-)

        in NYC, they're on full alert, nothing gets done until they 'get' this cop killer, I wish they would hunt down other criminals with the fervor they do this particular aspect of their job

        "I'm sculpting now. Landscapes mostly." ~ Yogi Bear

        by eXtina on Mon Feb 06, 2012 at 09:49:40 PM PST

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        •  Wish they would hunt down criminal cops (4+ / 0-)
          with the fervor they do this particular aspect of their job
          Their job is to protect and to serve and last time I checked, that meant the American public, not their own.

          The worst crime a cop can commit is murder of those he was paid and given extra authorities to protect.

          There is nothing that protects the public from a cop gone rogue, which means a rogue cop is the greatest threat to American citizens, far greater than some Muslim terrorists, a serial killer, or a foreign nation.

          "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect." Mark Twain

          by aufklaerer on Tue Feb 07, 2012 at 05:49:27 AM PST

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          •  Here's what I've said for a long time: (0+ / 0-)

            The easiest way to guarantee we have only good, fair, decent people as cops is by changing the laws. Change the laws to say this:

            If a cop commits an act which, if committed by the average citizen under the same circumstance was a crime, that cop will be charged at AT LEAST the same level as the average citizen would be.

            No doubt it wouldn't be as simple as that, but that's the basis of it. Eg... if a cop slams a person to the ground when it's not absolutely necessary for his own or someone else's safety, that cop has just committed (at least) battery.

            "Any dictator would admire the uniformity and obedience of the U.S. media." -- Noam Chomsky

            by ratmach on Tue Feb 07, 2012 at 03:42:44 PM PST

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      •  I disagree with this line of thinking (0+ / 0-)

        asking someone else to risk their career, livelihood, social standing, &c for what you believe in is not necessarily fair.

        I've made this point a few times in Occupy threads....no matter what happens, any cop out on the streets is a member of the 99%, guaranteed. They are natural allies, and attacking them as a group is counter-productive IMHO.

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