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View Diary: Contrary torture memo finally released by State Department. Bottom line: CIA committed war crimes (275 comments)

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  •  Believe or not, the debate (28+ / 0-)

    over the efficacy of torture is about to heat up (again.) To coincide with the year-anniversary of Bin Laden's death, the former heard of the CIA counterterrorism unit, Jose Rodriguez, is co-publishing a book arguing that torture made us all safe.

    Hard Measures: How Aggressive CIA Actions After 9/11 Saved American Lives

    Important to remember that American torture under Bush was not confined to the CIA "enhanced interrogation" program -- that was a mere part of a systematic top-down takes-the-gloves approach that gave Americans the license to torture people to death.

    All told, the documents describe the death of approximately 190 detainees in U.S. custody under varying circumstances.
    •  On US soil? (0+ / 0-)

      Or, Gitmo?

      I can't download those docs from here.

      I would think most death would have occured while in rendition sites supervised by other countries.

    •  Many of those 190 would have been innocent, too. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      greeseyparrot, aliasalias, TimmyB

      Given how many prisoners have later been proven to have been innocent.

      Can you image someone torturing you to get information you don't even have? Using measure so extreme as to kill you?

      Innocent people. With wives. With parents. With children. Tortured to death.

      And all Obama can say is let's move on.

      Barack Obama: So morally bankrupt that he thinks people who tortured other people to death should get a pass. Likes to prosecute whistleblowers and pot smokers, though.

      by expatjourno on Wed Apr 04, 2012 at 02:34:53 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yup, innocent (11+ / 0-)

        or low-level militants opposing American occupations. Not 'terrorists." Not that this kind of treatment is ever acceptable.

        Here's a pieceby a truly innocent teenager - a child-- from Chad who was tortured in Afghanistan, then Gitmo. Just to underscore what we're talking about.

        We landed at another airstrip. It was night. Americans shouted: ‘Terrorists, criminals, we’re going to kill you!’ Two soldiers took me by my arms and started running. My legs were dragging on the ground. They were laughing, telling me: ‘Fucking nigger!’ I didn’t know what that meant, I learned it later. They took off my mask and I saw many tents on the airstrip. They put me inside one. There was an Egyptian (I recognised his Arabic) wearing a US uniform. He started by asking me: ‘When was the last time you saw Osama bin Laden?’ ‘Who?’ He took me by my shirt collar and they beat me again. During all my time at Kandahar, I was beaten. Once it was like a movie – they came inside the tent with guns, shouting: WE CAUGHT THE TERRORISTS! And they put us in handcuffs. ‘Here are their guns!’ And they threw some Kalashnikovs onto the ground. ‘We’ve been fighting them, they killed a lot of people!’ All that was for cameras, which were held by men in uniforms. I was lying on the ground with the other prisoners. They brought dogs to scare us....

        Then they put us in a plane – I don’t know what kind because I couldn’t see. As soon as you moved or talked, they beat you. They were shouting: IF YOU DON’T FOLLOW OUR ORDERS, WE’LL KILL YOU! I passed out. We had no water and no food. I woke up hearing voices shouting at me in different languages. They took me to my cell. I saw soldiers everywhere, and guns, like if it was war. There were big metal fences everywhere. We were in Guantánamo, in Camp X-Ray. It’s a prison without walls, without roofs – only fences. Nothing to protect you from the sun or the rain...

        For months, I didn’t know where I was. Some brothers said Europe. No, others told: ‘It’s the weather of Oman.’ Others told Brazil, also because of the weather. We arrived in February, but it was so hot in comparison to Kandahar. There we shivered night and day, especially when we were naked. After a few months, an interrogator told me: ‘We’re in Cuba.’ It was the first time I heard this name. ‘An island in the middle of the ocean. Nobody can run away from here and you’ll be here for ever.’ The older detainees knew of Cuba, but didn’t know there was an American base. I’d seen a lot of American movies, and arrested people always said: ‘I have the right to a lawyer!’ The interrogators laughed at me: ‘Not here in Guantánamo! You got no rights here!’..

        In the beginning there were interrogations every night. They tortured me with electricity, mostly on the toes. The nails of my big toes fell off. Sometimes they hung you up like a chicken and hit your back. Sometimes they chained you, with your head on the ground. You couldn’t move for 16 or 17 hours. You peed on yourself.’

    •  To respectfully disagree . . . (0+ / 0-)

      I don't think anyone really wants to bring up torture again.  Like an insane person kept in the attic, people will not want to mention/deal with it again. The insane one is still there, those on the outside will keep on feeding it surreptitiously, but actively debate about whether or not the insanity of torture should be performed, I don't think so.  

      I think torture will be brushed under the rug of "national security" even in the light of a potential military trial of KSM. Since prosecutors can't or aren't supposed to use evidence obtained under torture, there won't be much examination of the 183 times KSM was water boarded. In my opinion this is a fig leaf for KSM's execution and the subsequent media declaration 'closure' for the victims of 9/11.

      As for Jose Rodriguez - he took part in Iran-Contra.   He ordered or took the blame for ordering the burning of the torture tapes.  

      Now he is trying to justify his authorization/cupidity regarding torture by saying that torture got info on the location of Bin Laden.   Rodriguez retired in 2007.  Bin Laden killed in 2011. I think most people will consider the source.  

      "Conservatives care from conception to crowning." VetGrl

      by sailmaker on Wed Apr 04, 2012 at 02:43:26 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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