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View Diary: Contrary torture memo finally released by State Department. Bottom line: CIA committed war crimes (275 comments)

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  •  What Obama has done is worse, by far. n/t (5+ / 0-)

    Barack Obama: So morally bankrupt that he thinks people who tortured other people to death should get a pass. Likes to prosecute whistleblowers and pot smokers, though.

    by expatjourno on Wed Apr 04, 2012 at 02:15:52 PM PDT

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    •  Not what Obama has done (initiated) but what he (6+ / 0-)

      has done (ignored).

      "...it's difficult to imagine what else Republicans can do to drive women away in 2012, unless they decide to bring back witch-hanging. And I wouldn't put it past them." James Wolcott

      by Mayfly on Wed Apr 04, 2012 at 02:20:01 PM PDT

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    •  FDR's internment program was implemented in (11+ / 0-)

      the immediate aftermath of Pearl Harbor.  That doesn't justify FDR's actions, but Obama is operating under an entirely different set of circumstances.  The failure to prosecute years after 9/11 when passions have cooled considerably is far more egregious.

      In hindsight, "Change" was a deliberately ambiguous slogan, but I assumed that it meant at least trying to reinstate the rule of law in this country.  This WH's Nixonian view of executive power and of civil liberties has come as a real shock to me.

      Some men see things as they are and ask why. I dream of things that never were and ask why not?

      by RFK Lives on Wed Apr 04, 2012 at 02:36:19 PM PDT

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      •  Two small disagreements. (9+ / 0-)

        1) Japanese internment began more than two months after Pearl Harbor.  It's not quite right to present it as a kind of panicked reaction to a surprise attack.

        2) I'm not very surprised by Obama's views of executive power and civil liberties. Though in the early days of the campaign he made some positive noises on civil liberties issues, they never seemed to be a priority of his. And his switching sides and supporting TelCom immunity in the summer of 2008 should have been a good indication of what we could expect from an Obama administration in this regard. And just to be clear: the leadership of both parties have been terrible on these issues for a generation. Look at Bill Clinton on, e.g. the War on (Certain Classes of People Who Use Certain) Drugs, civil forfeiture, or "three strikes."  The mainstream of both parties kinda hates the Fourth Amendment.

        Oklahoma: State Government So Small It Fits In Your Vagina!

        by GreenSooner on Wed Apr 04, 2012 at 03:07:02 PM PDT

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        •  The country was still panicked 2 mos later (6+ / 0-)

          1 mo after the attack, the Rose Bowl was moved to Durham, NC b/c large gatherings were banned on W Coast.   Plus, the Japanese pretty well rampaged through the Pacific from Pearl Harbor until Midway in 6/42.

          The Dems of my youth (1970's) drove Nixon from office 21 mos after a landslide re-election b/c of his abuses of power.   They then conducted Senate hearings that exposed the seamy underside of the CIA.  Some time in the 80's, just as they lost their willingness to battle on economic issues, they lost their willingness to battle on abuse of power issues.  They got totally rolled by North in the '87 Iran/Contra hearings, and they've gotten used to getting rolled pretty much ever since.

          As a senator, our POTUS was firmly in the Paul Douglas/Adlai III/Paul Simon/Durbin line of reform Dem IL senators.   Simonwas prominently featured in an ad during Obama's 2004 Senate campaign.  I volunteered in Simon's 1988 campaign, and I spent time w/ him on several occasions.  He never would've rolled over here like Obama has.

          Some men see things as they are and ask why. I dream of things that never were and ask why not?

          by RFK Lives on Wed Apr 04, 2012 at 04:42:16 PM PDT

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          •  Like a said: Dems have been bad on these issues... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            expatjourno

            ....for a generation, i.e. c. 20 years.

            Back in '88, things were different.  I was a staffer with the Dukakis campaign in '87-'88...ans he wouldn't have acted like Obama, either.

            Oklahoma: State Government So Small It Fits In Your Vagina!

            by GreenSooner on Wed Apr 04, 2012 at 05:08:12 PM PDT

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