Skip to main content

View Diary: A Police Officer Was Forced To Release Pepper Spray. At 4 Year Old. (235 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  Was risk evident? If so, why was 4-y.o. there? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    elwior

    And is this diary about clever tweets?

    •  Finally! (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      elwior, JayRaye

      I've been waiting for comments like this for 14 hours.  Usually they arrive within a few hours.

    •  So (talking to myself) ... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      elwior

      ... this person with the four year old (assuming the four old wasn't acting on her own) presumably decided to be present in a hallway, with the four year old, with a crowd trying to forcibly enter or disrupt a contentious meeting either about to begin or in-progress, with security personnel visibly present.

      Perhaps this diary's title should instead be about someone either stupidly or intentionally putting a four year old in harm's way.  If stupidity, grow up ... fast! ... for the sake of this four year old.  If intentional, why?

      •  Yes you're exactly right makaio! (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        jpmassar, JayRaye, Kurt Sperry

        And Trayvon Martin was just asking to get shot and killed by putting on that hoodie and acting suspiciously.

          And rape victims who chose to dress like "sluts" are asking for trouble too.
          And women and children who live with men who are prone to get violent when they drink should know better than to not do as they're told!

           And then people start whining when these foolish people are "victimized" when clearly they failed to take necessary precautions.

          Responsible parents should know that when people start complaining about unfair treatment to their superiors, it's perfectly understandable that peace officers will be forced to pepper spray the crowd inside a building.
           Why is this so surprising to these whiners?

        "We the People of the United States...." -U.S. Constitution

        by elwior on Thu Apr 05, 2012 at 11:00:18 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Your words. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          elwior

          Not mine.  Your analogy attempts are not analogous.

          In protest environment, there's one side, the other side, and sometimes security in the middle.  One must assume each of these two or three separate categories includes the full gamut or personalities from nincompoops to professionals -- any one of which can spark an undesired event, which in turn will be acted upon by others in who knows what ways.

          The confined area of a building, fence, or whatever adds more risk to the situation.

          If one wants to place themselves in these circumstances, fine.  If one wants to carry their four year old into it, not fine.

          •  How do you know what the circumstances were (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            jpmassar, JayRaye, Kurt Sperry

            that brought that Mom and child into that building at that time?

               You've got a lot of nerve judging people this way!

            "We the People of the United States...." -U.S. Constitution

            by elwior on Thu Apr 05, 2012 at 12:03:56 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Reprehensible Rationalizing and Blame Shifting (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            JayRaye, jpmassar, elwior

            My mother took me to protests when I was young and those were valuable and educational experiences.  Children should be taken to protests.  The violence when psychotic police go berserk isn't on the victims of that violence, it is on the perps. Uniforms and tin badges changes the moral calculus not one iota.

            Blaming the victims is beyond disgusting.  

            Advisors for President-Elect Barack Obama feared the new administration would face a coup if it prosecuted Bush-era war crimes, according to a new report out this morning.

            by Kurt Sperry on Thu Apr 05, 2012 at 01:51:27 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Yep (0+ / 0-)

              Those police are always in a win-win situation.  Or more appropriately it's win-win-win, like in The Office episode.

              And it goes without saying that we disagree on risking children's safety at a protest.  But I said it anyway.

              •  Imagine a Peaceful Occupation Protest (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                JayRaye, elwior

                where every protester held the hand of their young child. There is no winning strategy for the police in that scenario. They break out the truncheons and pepper spray and it becomes an instant youtube PR disaster. Initiating violence in their usual contemptible manner would instantly turn a sizeable majority of the nation against them.  Even police wouldn't be stupid enough to bring that on themselves.

                Advisors for President-Elect Barack Obama feared the new administration would face a coup if it prosecuted Bush-era war crimes, according to a new report out this morning.

                by Kurt Sperry on Thu Apr 05, 2012 at 02:37:26 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

    •  Bad Mother! (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      elwior, jpmassar

      Bad, Bad, Mother!

      Imagine bringing a child into a public hallway of a public building for a public meeting!

      Public Safety must be maintained, even if we must endanger the the public to maintain their safety!

      Next target PTA meeting, parent teacher conference, city council meetings. In fact, just leave the kids at home at all times. Might get a parking ticket one day thereby endangering public safety.

      Solidarity Forever, for the Union makes us strong.-Ralph Chaplin, 1915

      by JayRaye on Thu Apr 05, 2012 at 11:24:03 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  See reply to elwior (if desired) (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        elwior

        I just think the responsibility for a child exceeds that of protesting.  

        Maybe the (presumed) child's mom was just on her way to the adjacent overflow room.  If so, I'm wrong, and I apologize.  

        If she was actively protesting in the hallway or pressing to get into what I presume was a full main conference room, it was an irresponsible action on her part and in my opinion.

        Lots of presumptions on my part, but there are also many presumptions on others' parts that security personnel are evil and seek out a four year olds to pepper spray.  I doubt this is true.

        I'm sorry the four year old (and others) got sprayed.  If she weren't toted along, she would not have been.

        •  I totaly agree with you. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          elwior, jpmassar

          Now that we know that cops must use pepper spray to maintain public safety, children should be kept at home at all times. After all, one never knows when one might upset a cop or a citizen's patrol, or neighborhood watch.  And now that schools are patrolled with pepper spray, children should no longer go to school.

          And no more irresponsible parents allowing them to observe public meetings either. Esp since public meetings are now patrolled with pepper spray.

          New rules are needed for our New America, and we thank you for enlightening us.

          Solidarity Forever, for the Union makes us strong.-Ralph Chaplin, 1915

          by JayRaye on Thu Apr 05, 2012 at 12:53:38 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I can speak for myself (0+ / 0-)

            I don't need your b.s. tying this to other circumstances -- not to mention Trayvon's murder -- and my perceived views of such circumstances.

            And I don't know if this event was orderly or merited police-type action.  If the latter, and if you want cops to use Nerf bats (interesting term with a surprising alternate definition I just learned of) or whatever to stop shovers (crickey, another surprising spell check definition), instigators, mobs, or others -- who are unresponsive to verbal direction -- then good luck in your utopia.

        •  Yes, it's never wrong to blame the victims (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          jpmassar, JayRaye

          and those associated with the victims.

          "We the People of the United States...." -U.S. Constitution

          by elwior on Thu Apr 05, 2012 at 01:12:30 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Oh wait, never mind. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          jpmassar, JayRaye

          I see this officer was forced to release his pepper spray into a crowd of innocent people inside a public building.
             He was concerned for their safety.

          "We the People of the United States...." -U.S. Constitution

          by elwior on Thu Apr 05, 2012 at 01:16:46 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  pepper spray appropriate? (0+ / 0-)

            Given the ventilation confines, the pepper spray could easily have been a hindsight mistake.

            But we don't know what prompted this security guy or gal to act.  They obviously felt forced to react to -- yes, another presumption -- some one or some group that was unresponsive to direction and/or perceived as threatening.

            I doubt the threat was the presence of a four year old, as this diary's title implies.

            While the pepper spray likely impacted more people than desired, would you have preferred a baton?

            Whatever.  I guess my initial thought of why was a four year old brought to a place where "some 100 student protesters tried to force their way into a board of trustees meeting" (Time article quote ... just pick your own number if you don't like "100") is waaaaaaaaay out of line.   Sarcasm on.

            •  Once again, thx for your wise words. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              elwior

              I realize that you are absolutely right, better to use pepper spray on citizens in public places than batons. Altho using both together, probably much more effective.

              Citizens will eventually learn to just STFU & stay home where they belong. Much more peaceful that way.

              Again, thank you for enlightening us.

              Solidarity Forever, for the Union makes us strong.-Ralph Chaplin, 1915

              by JayRaye on Thu Apr 05, 2012 at 02:26:13 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  A "hindsight" mistake? (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              JayRaye

              Really? You want to go with that one?

              "We the People of the United States...." -U.S. Constitution

              by elwior on Thu Apr 05, 2012 at 02:30:07 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  With regard to the non-instigators, yes (0+ / 0-)

                (Arrgh.  Retyping this due to my "wonderful" touchpad.)

                Obviously, the security person or people targeted some people with pepper spray -- not a hindsight mistake.

                The point I was trying to convey (not well ... thanks) is that dispersion of the pepper spray via the building's ventilation system may have inadvertently impacted people, like the four year old, who were not trying to force a response from the (let's call them) police.

                So if the police had better (i.e. more localized temporary impact) tools other than pepper spray available for the confrontational protesters, pepper spray could be considered a mistake with hindsight, given that it affected folks other than those of immediate concern.  I don't know that police would have a better option, given their circumstances, duties, and experience.  Maybe.  Maybe not.

                I've just watched my first video of this event, moving beyond news reading, and there's no question that some protesters were trying to elicit a physical response from the police.  

                In my book, these protesters are pretty despicable.  They are purposely trying to create a violent situation, regardless of its consequences on one side, the other side, and the police in the middle.

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

  • Recommended (173)
  • Baltimore (88)
  • Community (84)
  • Bernie Sanders (66)
  • Freddie Gray (60)
  • Civil Rights (58)
  • Elections (41)
  • Culture (38)
  • Hillary Clinton (36)
  • Media (36)
  • Racism (33)
  • Law (32)
  • 2016 (31)
  • Labor (27)
  • Education (26)
  • Environment (25)
  • Republicans (23)
  • Politics (23)
  • Barack Obama (22)
  • Economy (21)
  • Click here for the mobile view of the site