Skip to main content

View Diary: Well DUH, Morons (156 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  how many falsehoods can you pack into a diary? (5+ / 0-)

    First, since when is San Francisco State University a "corporate" source of curriculum.  It's a public university.  You did notice the word "state" in the name of the institution, right?

    Second, if you have actual evidence of people having used this approach previously, please post it.  However, since we have an education professor developing this, I'm going to guess that it is in fact somewhat new.  After all, university faculty's job is to develop new things, and if it were old hat, I'm going to guess she'd be researching something else.

    Third, you'll notice that the other collaborator was the music instructor in San Bruno, so I'm guessing he wasn't forgetting that there was a music program there since he IS the music program

    FOurth, they are doing this thing called reporting, where you describe what people are doing. This "make the case for music instruction" is called editorializing, and is supposed to happen in a different section.  I know that those outlets that mix the two are super popular these days (see Fox), but I'm not a big fan of that.

    Fifth, where is your evidence that this "programs like this are designed to ELIMINATE the general music class altogether."

    Sixth, as someone who has done education research a little myself, frequently one tries to develop curricula that can be diseminated widely.  Now, I'm sure you'd LOVE to limit new pedagogies to schools that have music teachers (that is, in California, rich ones) but some of us feel that poor kids deserve to have access to new and effective methods.  You completely blew past the part of the article that this approach also turned out to engage otherwise low performing students who never properly mastered fractions.  In fact, professor Courey's research is all about bringning mathematics to students with learning differences.  I guess we can leave those behind too.

    YOu were right about one thing.  It is incoherent babbling.

    I really wish people would engage their brains a little before getting on the outrage train.  Here, you've misrepresented the piece in several significant ways.

    •  have to agree. (0+ / 0-)

      I saw it as a positive report--hardly a negative one.

    •  As a music educator, we teach this ALL. THE. TIME. (16+ / 0-)

      This is PART of the curriculum and has been for YEARS.

      This is NOT "new"

      And this is a pre-packaged curriculum set for NON-MUSIC teachers.

      In the Examiner article, it explicitly states

      No music teacher is needed to use the twelve lesson Academic Music study program. Curriculum materials for teachers are soon to be published by the authors.
      This is going to be MARKETED AND SOLD to schools.  And guess what?  They'll think they won't need a music teacher.

      Or COURSE it's corporate.  

      Most textbook writers are professors and such.  And they get a piece of the action, too.

      "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." --M. L. King "You can't fix stupid" --Ron White -6.00, -5.18

      by zenbassoon on Sun Apr 08, 2012 at 09:24:56 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  That word doesn't mean what you think it means (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bevenro, AaronInSanDiego, dpryan

        Academics are, well, academics, not corporations.  And they are in the game to expand learning.  The notion that they're doing for royalties is laughable, really.

        And, again, if you have evidence that this has been done elsewhere, please post it.   Maybe you are right.  But I find that unlikely, especially in light of the other smears and misrepresentations i your diary.  Frankly, you should delete the damn thing and write an honest piece.

        For you to be calling anyone morons is kind of added irony

      •  yes, but you don't teach it in math class. (3+ / 0-)

        what you're missing is the crossover.

        Anyone who thinks that a 2-week unit on fractions via notes is a substitute for elementary music education is nuts.

        Yes, school board members are nuts--but that's a different story.

      •  That's a jump . (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        think blue, elfling
        And this is a pre-packaged curriculum set for NON-MUSIC teachers.
        If the school has no music teacher then the program allows non music teachers to do what you want / think is good for the kids .
        The program shows music teachers a way to do what is good . It allows music teachers to show they are more than just music teachers , they are teaching math and the students are benefiting not only in music class but also in math class . If the music program is cut , not only will the kids suffer from a lack of music , their math scores will suffer .  
        Or COURSE it's corporate.
        You are using "corporate" as a boogeyman . I see someone doing good work to get this into more classrooms for more kids to benefit from . I see NPR spotlighting someone doing good work , giving center stage to some one doing good for kids .

        I've been listening to a college kid tutor a grade school kid in math , they are doing fractions . It's torture to listen to , the college kid knows math but does not know how to teach the subject . The little kid is so unhappy because the tutor is not making it understandable . If the college kid had a known / proven program to teach from , step one , step two , step 3 etc etc etc , I'm sure he and the kid would do better .

        "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

        by indycam on Sun Apr 08, 2012 at 09:58:38 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Susan Courey (0+ / 0-)

        http://coe.sfsu.edu/...

        Educational Background

        Susan Courey is an assistant professor in the mild/moderate disabilities program in the Department of Special Education. She received her Ph.D. (2006) from the Vanderbilt University in special education, high incidence disabilities, with an emphasis in mathematics for students with learning difficulties. She teaches graduate courses in mild/moderate disabilities, assessment and instruction, student teaching, and she is active in the joint doctoral program with UC Berkeley.

        Research Interests and Current Grant-Funded Projects

        Dr. Courey's research interests include teaching mathematics to students with learning differences and middle school mathematics. Currently Dr. Courey is working in collaboration with SRI and San Diego State University on a National Science Foundation funded project to advance the preparation of pre-service teachers in middle school mathematics.  This project is developing a web-based, dynamic textbook based on principles of Universal Design for Learning (UDL) and Technological, Pedagogical, and Content Knowledge. Dr. Courey is currently the principal investigator for a US Department of Education-funded project for program improvement. Federal funding has provided opportunity for SFSU to prepare teachers for a Response to Intervention service delivery model and to utilize emerging novel technology.

        Courey, S., Siker, J., Paik, J., & Balogh, E. (2010). Academic Music: Understanding Basic Fraction Concepts Through Music Notation. (under review, Journal for Research in Mathematics Education)

        Fuchs, L. S., Fuchs, D., Finelli, R., Courey, S. J., Hamlett, C. L., Sones, E. M., & Hope, S. (2006). Teaching third graders about real-life mathematical problem solving: A randomized controlled study. Elementary School Journal 106, 293-312.

        Fuchs, L.S., Fuchs, D., & Courey, S.J. (2005). Curriculum-based measurement of mathematics competence: From computation to concepts and applications to real-life problem solving. Assessment for Effective Instruction, 30, 33-46.

        Fuchs, L.S., Fuchs, D., Prentice, K., Hamlett, C.L., Finelli, R., Courey, S.J. (2004). Enhancing mathematical problem solving among third-grade students with schema-based instruction. Journal of Educational Psychology. 96, 635-645.

        I think you owe her a great big apology .

        "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

        by indycam on Sun Apr 08, 2012 at 11:48:40 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Actually, it's not as corporate as you're (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        elfling

        interpreting it to be.

        It's really a program designed by two enterprising teachers who got some funding and are still, it seems, in the field-testing stage at a small selection of schools throughout one area of California.

        http://toonesam.org/...

        Perhaps at one point if they get lots of enrollment and it seems profitable, they might make themselves into a whole corporation/charter school type for-profit deal.  But as of now they don't seem "corporate."

        That's one more thing to add to my long list of small problems. --my son, age 10

        by concernedamerican on Sun Apr 08, 2012 at 01:36:14 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  It's one thing to disagree with the diarist (5+ / 0-)

      and another to HR it because you disagree. You've been around here long enough to know about HR misuse.

      Your response isn't bolstered by the contempt and scorn you infuse in it. It reads like a response I'd see from one of the RW idiots on Facebook. Who's mind exactly do you intend to change with this?

      Occupy Wall Street. Occupy Main Street. Occupy everything. Force a tsunami of change on the nation.

      by Black Max on Sun Apr 08, 2012 at 10:00:29 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The HR made me look for the explanation (0+ / 0-)

        and that made me understand a different point of view.

        The HR literally means that the rater wants the post or diary hidden.  If the rater believes that the diary will misinform most of us who read it, it's a good reason to want that diary hidden.

        At first I thought "Who would HR this diary?"  Now I know, and I'm glad that Mindful Nature did.  It reminds me not to read diaries that summarize articles but to read the original articles themselves.

      •  It isn't that I disagree it is that it is false (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Black Max

        I've removed the HR since a higher bar should apply

        And yes this diary is very much like a RW screed because it completely ignores the facts and reality just to be able to make cheap (and false) points in order to gin up fake outrage.  As such it is very much a cousin of teabagger rhetoric.  

        And yes it totally deserves scorn. I do not see any reason to accord respect to falsehoods. I definitely draw the line there as a member of the reality based community

    •  HR Abuse (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Observerinvancouver, mapamp, uciguy30

      Take down your abusive HR

      There's nothing in the diary that should be hidden from view.

      You DON'T HR merely because you disagree, convoluted explanations or not.

      "Ronald Reagan is DEAD! His policies live on but we're doing something about THAT!"

      by leftykook on Sun Apr 08, 2012 at 10:28:02 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It is false so should be deleted (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        leftykook

        But I have removed it.  

        Now if everyone else would remove their recs

        •  Seems to me... (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Mindful Nature, mapamp, uciguy30

          ...it's an opinion piece, so it's ZB's opinion.

          And I certainly see your reasoning for disagreeing, which sounds reasonable to me, and we've got your comment here, with no one suggesting it should be hidden.

          "Ronald Reagan is DEAD! His policies live on but we're doing something about THAT!"

          by leftykook on Sun Apr 08, 2012 at 10:56:40 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Opinions based on complete misrepresentations (0+ / 0-)

            Are what's gotten us in such trouble.  How come we yell about the stenographer press but then rec up completely unsupported pieces ourselves. We decry opinions that tax cuts for the rich boost employment because it is false, but then clamor for more feel good outrage without looking to see if there is truth ourselves.  IOKIYALiberal?

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site