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View Diary: "No True Scotsman" and Jesus: UPDATE (89 comments)

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  •  Except it is being said to the wrong people (2+ / 0-)
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    JosephK74, HeyMikey

    Saying it to the people who are being attacked by those groups is derailing their statements about being attacked.

    Saying it to the attacking groups, or the bystanders watching may be a way to combat those actions, and demonstrate that only they should be blamed, but this is not what I see going on very often. The Rick Warren and the Poor discussion is the first time in a very long time I've seen people of faith speaking loudly about people within their faith being 'wrong'.

    "All things are not equally true. It is time to face reality." -Al Gore

    by Geek of all trades on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 11:53:58 AM PDT

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    •  Depends on what precipitates the comment (0+ / 0-)

      saying to people who are being oppressed, don't lash out at all Christians, there's another way forward, isn't derailment. It's an argument in parallel, and if it's being said to people talking from ignorance about religion, tarring it with one brush, all the better.  The same thing needs to be said for different reasons to different people, and certainly doesn't legitimize that which is cast as a disfavored interpretation. a

      The study of law was certainly a strange discipline. -- Yukio Mishima

      by Loge on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 12:37:58 PM PDT

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      •  If you only say don't lash out at all Christians (1+ / 0-)
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        JosephK74

        that is.

        If your comment is focused on another way forward, if it is part of an argument that is going on in parallel, then it may be more part of a conversation.

        Are you listening to their problem and complaint or are you just defending yourself as a Christian?

        "All things are not equally true. It is time to face reality." -Al Gore

        by Geek of all trades on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 01:50:08 PM PDT

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        •  i'm not a Christian, (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          HeyMikey

          but the rest of your comment has too many pronouns to make sense of.  To the extent possible, I do take seriously complaints about homophobia, sexism, etc.  I don't take the diarist's complaint about how to discuss the intersection of these issues and religion seriously at all.  Unless someone is saying Warren and his ilk literally aren't Christians, the whole fallacy isn't implicated, and to the extent someone is saying that Warren and his ilk simply happen to be bad at reading the Bible, and that if they were better at reading the Bible they'd be in more agreement with progressive causes, that's not derailment/cover/whatever you want to call it.  It can be a helpful suggestion on how to engage potential allies.  Or it can simply be a perfectly valid statement of viewpoint or correction of the record.  

          The study of law was certainly a strange discipline. -- Yukio Mishima

          by Loge on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 05:18:20 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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