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View Diary: Monsanto Buys Out Leading Bee Research Firm (163 comments)

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  •  Herbicides can effect animals. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mookins, blueoasis, mrkvica, DuzT

    Never meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer.--Bruce Graham

    by Ice Blue on Tue Apr 24, 2012 at 10:08:21 AM PDT

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    •  Roundup's main selling point... (4+ / 0-)

      ...is how little effect it has on animals and how readily it breaks down.

      As pesticides go, it's ridiculously safe.

      •  And as... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Ice Blue

        all herbicides go, eventually plants develop resistance to them and become a waste of energy to produce.

        The idea that waging war on nature is a good thing but waging war on humanity is a bad thing boggles my mind.

        (Not saying that you believe we should be using biocides, just saying that many liberals still fall for the frame that unless we are vigilant against nature, nature will kill us off!)

        A Victory Garden documents our experience transitioning from suburban lawn to edible food forest based on permaculture principles.

        by FinchJ on Tue Apr 24, 2012 at 02:11:31 PM PDT

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        •  You Are Correct That... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          sagesource
          eventually plants develop resistance to them and become a waste of energy to produce
          But that is true of antibiotics as well.  Using your thinking we should quit using antibiotics altogether as well.

          the real issue should be when should we use pesticides and antibiotics.  Antibiotics are overused by ranchers and doctors.  Putting antibiotics in feed shortens the time before the antibiotic becomes useless.  I have seen doctors prescribe antibiotics without a tested diagnosis of strep throat whcih also shortens the time before the antibiotic is useless.  

          •  Well, no. That is not my thinking. (0+ / 0-)

            The use of biocides in landscape management and the use of antibiotics as a medicine of last resort are not the same issue.

            First- the use of biocides in agriculture and landscape management is first and foremost a cultural issue. As a culture we value monocultures, decreased diversity, and landscapes that conform to our notion of what nature or a farm are supposed to look like- rather than what the landscape is telling us.

            You don't plant a massive monoculture, even with crop rotation, and not expect it to become a veritable smorgasbord for herbivores and plant disease. The whole idea that you can is not based in reality. The same goes with forcing thousands of animals into a confinement operation. Just because you have antibiotics doesn't mean you can force feed animals diets their bodies cannot digest naturally while they stand in their own feces alongside hundreds of other animals.

            No, the use of these "products" stems from our insane belief that we can force organisms into unnatural life styles simply because we have technology. The idea reeks of more than just hubris.

            That said, the judicious use of antibiotics and medicine for health of an animal that has otherwise been fed real food and allowed to live in an environment close to its EEA (environment of evolutionary adaptedness) is another topic entirely.

            You took "my thinking" to the extreme position of never using anything man makes, ever. Which is of course ridiculous and disrespectful. My thinking includes the ability to have different positions on different subjects.

            A Victory Garden documents our experience transitioning from suburban lawn to edible food forest based on permaculture principles.

            by FinchJ on Wed Apr 25, 2012 at 06:23:13 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  "Ridiculously safe" according to...? (8+ / 0-)

        There are studies documenting Roundup's teratogenic effects in animals.

        Roundup's commercial formulation has never been submitted to the EPA for testing.

        In addition to glyphosphate, Roundup contains the surfactant, POEA, which increases herbicide penetration of both plant and animal cells.

        A 2009 study, published in the journal Chemical Research in Toxicology, found that Roundup--even in small concentrations--caused the death in vitro of human embryonic, placental, and umbilical cells.

        Several studies, from 2005 to 2009, have demonstrated that Roundup is an endocrine disruptor.

        In 1991, the owner and 14 employees of the humorously-named Craven Labs were convicted and sentenced based on false testimony and falsification of scientific tests of pesticides.  Monsanto was among the companies that hired Craven, and Roundup was one of the products they tested.

        The EU has classified glyphosphate, the main active ingredient in Roundup, as "dangerous for the environment" and "toxic for aquatic organisms".

        Ridiculous, yes.  Safe, no.

      •  Corporations said the same thing (9+ / 0-)

        about DDT and other substances (like asbestos) later proven very harmful.  I don't believe a word corporations say anymore.   They'll say anything for a buck.

        There already is class warfare in America. Unfortunately, the rich are winning.

        by Puddytat on Tue Apr 24, 2012 at 03:18:07 PM PDT

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      •  Oops... (0+ / 0-)

        Roundup isn't a pesticide, I meant to say herbicide.

    •  Agent Orange was an herbicide (8+ / 0-)

      That it had horrible effects on other lifeforms was something we "overlooked"

      fact does not require fiction for balance (proudly a DFH)

      by mollyd on Tue Apr 24, 2012 at 11:31:45 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Anyone can walk into a garden store and buy (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        in the Trees

        the broadleaf herbicides that comprised Agent Orange, 50:50% 2,4,5-T and 2,4-D.  Roundup is much less toxic to mammals, at least for acute exposures.

        Where are we, now that we need us most?

        by Frank Knarf on Tue Apr 24, 2012 at 02:24:43 PM PDT

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        •  Hell, I was the official Chlordane sprayer around (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Frank Knarf

          my house as a kid -- mix it with water in a 1-gallon jug with a pump sprayer and around the house I'd go. No mask, no gloves, no notion that it was in any way harmful.

          Didn't have a clue what the stuff was until I moved into a new place in 1980 and my next door neighbor completely freaked out when she saw me blissfully spraying away.

          Yeehaw.

          "I'm not going to censor myself to comfort your ignorance." - Jon Stewart

          by here4tehbeer on Tue Apr 24, 2012 at 11:05:31 PM PDT

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          •  Yep. I remember having Chlordane sprayed (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            here4tehbeer

            around the foundation multiple times to stop termites.  We kids spent lots of happy hours in the basement, trying to  avoid contracting chlor acne.

            Then when we ran around outside and got tar on our bare feet the grown-ups would wash it off with gasoline.  It's amazing any of us are still here.

            Where are we, now that we need us most?

            by Frank Knarf on Wed Apr 25, 2012 at 06:50:45 AM PDT

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            •  Oh yeah - the Skippy peanut butter jar half-filled (0+ / 0-)

              with *leaded* 90 octane all-purpose miracle cleaner sitting on the garage shelf next to all the other toxic liquids and powders.

              Good times :)

              "I'm not going to censor myself to comfort your ignorance." - Jon Stewart

              by here4tehbeer on Wed Apr 25, 2012 at 09:00:27 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  Correction. 2,4,5-T is no longer available, (0+ / 0-)

          having been phased out due to dioxin contamination concerns.

          Where are we, now that we need us most?

          by Frank Knarf on Wed Apr 25, 2012 at 07:57:51 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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