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View Diary: Against War and Austerity, Hollande is Right and Obama Should Agree (63 comments)

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  •  please explain (5+ / 0-)

    how keeping U.S. troops in Afghanistan until 2014 and then withdrawing them is going to help Afghan school girls in 2015 and beyond. I'm all ears.

    Please also explain how this is the most cost-effective thing we can do to help Afghan school girls, keeping in mind that it is costing $88 billion a year and the lives of more than 300 U.S. soldiers a year.

    •  it probably won't help that much (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      charliehall2

      but that little bit is worth it.

      leaving Afganistan in the 80's was the mistake.  a lot would be different if we finished what we started.

      -You want to change the system, run for office.

      by Deep Texan on Tue May 08, 2012 at 01:01:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Errr... it'll help because it means that it gives (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Deep Texan, charliehall2

      the Afghan National Security Forces more time to get up to speed, so that they can effectively protect girls' schools even when ISAF troops have left.  It also gives the Afghans the time to establish a new, democratically-elected non-Karzai govt. in 2014.

      But you probably knew that already.

      "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

      by Lawrence on Tue May 08, 2012 at 01:13:45 PM PDT

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    •  It Will Only Help... (0+ / 0-)

      Obama's Legacy.  This is clearly a political decision.

      •  Unless you are the ... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Deep Texan

        ... Commander of American operations in Afghanistan, his XO or immediate staff member or one of the Joint Chiefs of Staff or one of their aides, President Barack Obama, Vice President Joe Biden or Secretarys Hillary Clinton or Leon Panetta, you clearly don't know what "clearly" means.

        If you think the opportunity to leave a semi- to mostly-stable and semi- to mostly-democratic government with the ability to defend itself and control the Taliban and al-Qaeda in Afghanistan is not worth the money or the lives of American soldiers, you would be making an honest argument, although you would be haphazardly throwing away the lives of American soldiers who have helped us get this far.

        But, instead, what you're doing is baseless speculation ("political decision") supported by massive hyperbole ("clearly").  

        I would tip you, but the man took away my tips.

        by Tortmaster on Tue May 08, 2012 at 02:46:59 PM PDT

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        •  agreed (0+ / 0-)

          -You want to change the system, run for office.

          by Deep Texan on Tue May 08, 2012 at 02:57:27 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  If Afghanistan Ever Becomes... (0+ / 0-)

          "Semi- to mostly-stable" and "semi- to mostly-democratic" I feel certain the troops will come home quickly.

          In my opinion (opinion's are always speculation and baseless to those who disagree) we are not now in that situation.  I am not sure Afghanistan will be "semi to mostly stable" in the forseeable future.  Afghanistan is one of the few areas of the world that is so poor in resources and isolated that no one has been able to govern it successfully, possibly since Alexander the Great.  It is poorer and more isolated now, so it is in a more precarious position.

          •  When you write, ... (0+ / 0-)

            ... "If Afghanistan ever becomes "Semi- to mostly-stable" and "semi- to mostly-democratic" I feel certain the troops will come home quickly," I totally agree with you.

            I think that's what President Obama is banking on with the training of Afghani troops.

            I would tip you, but the man took away my tips.

            by Tortmaster on Tue May 08, 2012 at 08:33:00 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I Am Not Holding My Breath... (0+ / 0-)

              Afghanistan is a nearly impossible area to govern because of the tribalism and isolated nature of the country.  Without a decent road system the different tribal rivalries continue.  Just imagine what the New York Borroughs would have looked like 75 years ago without streets or subways connecting them and with radio, TV, magazines or newspapers.  And then what if half the population (women) were illiterate.  And attacked if they went to school.  This will all return as soon as we leave the country.

              That is why POTUS's comment was good to win the Primary but a bad for future governing if he was elected.

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