Skip to main content

View Diary: I Apologize, Profoundly. Update, a Thank You (235 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  whoa. stop right there. (3+ / 0-)
    I have seen defenders of Obama level the accusation NOT because they had any evidence that their interlocutor was racist, but rather because they felt that it had rhetorical power and would give them an edge in the argument.
    how do you know that?  how could you possibly?

    This comment is dedicated to my mellow Adept2U and his Uncle Marcus

    by mallyroyal on Tue May 22, 2012 at 08:30:31 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Let me put it this way (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Robobagpiper

      I've seen the accusation leveled without any evidence being presented.

      And more times than I can count.

      And it's an immediate escalation that derails the argument altogether.

      I will submit that my "knowing" that it's being used for rhetorical advantage is based on PRECISELY the same kind of intuition people claim when they "know" people's motivations to be racist.

      Which, in short, is why such escalations are deeply, deeply problematic.

      "Heterosexuality is not normal, it's just common." Dorothy Parker

      by dedmonds on Tue May 22, 2012 at 08:45:47 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  well (0+ / 0-)

        did your deeply problematic statement of what your "knowledge" is, derail this one?

        especially considering the comment to which you replied?

        do you regret it?  should it have gotten you banned?

        This comment is dedicated to my mellow Adept2U and his Uncle Marcus

        by mallyroyal on Tue May 22, 2012 at 08:52:28 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Actually, in this particular subthread (0+ / 0-)

          it's not at all an escalation or a derailment since it's exactly what we're talking about.

          In another context, it would be just that.

          In this (very meta-)context, we're discussing the perceived problems here. I'm positing that this is a thorny issue with bad behavior on both sides (genuine racists, and people who use accusations of racism as an inappropriate blunt instrument)

          You seem to be positing that the latter doesn't happen? Or are you taking issue with the motives I'm imputing to those who make inappropriate accusations of racism?

          I'm sure most of them aren't saying "wait, I'll accuse this person of racism to gain rhetorical advantage!" It's nothing so conscious as that. But it seems an accusation that flies too easily. As, I might add, do accusations of sexism and homophobia.

          "Heterosexuality is not normal, it's just common." Dorothy Parker

          by dedmonds on Tue May 22, 2012 at 09:05:48 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  what's the difference, then? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            SouthernBelleNC49
            I'm sure most of them aren't saying "wait, I'll accuse this person of racism to gain rhetorical advantage!" It's nothing so conscious as that. But it seems an accusation that flies too easily. As, I might add, do accusations of sexism and homophobia.
            I happen to think this is exactly how racism on the left works, for instance.  I'm not alone.

            so what's the difference between saying that, and saying what you just did?  why's one ok, and one not?

            btw yes to this:

            Or are you taking issue with the motives I'm imputing to those who make inappropriate accusations of racism?
            because,, as you say... that's what we're talking about.  motives and what we get to say about others'.

            This comment is dedicated to my mellow Adept2U and his Uncle Marcus

            by mallyroyal on Tue May 22, 2012 at 09:10:58 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I'm happy to admit (0+ / 0-)

              that I could be wrong about the motives. I don't think I am, but I could be. And I would never (ever) make a blanket accusation (e.g. everyone who accuses of racism is just trying to gain rhetorical advantage)(those who disagree with me are making accusations of racism to try to gain a rhetorical advantage), or even a targeted one (e.g. you are accusing of racism to gain rhetorical advantage [and to be clear, that's a generic you]).

              I think you're making a false equivalence as I'm describing something that happens without accusing or imputing any particular group of people or any individuals. I'm just saying that I think some accusations of racism are intellectually dishonest and manipulative. I'm not pointing fingers. I'm not accusing anyone in particular.

              Unless you believe that NO accusations of racism are EVER intellectually dishonest and manipulative, I have trouble seeing what the issue is.

              "Heterosexuality is not normal, it's just common." Dorothy Parker

              by dedmonds on Tue May 22, 2012 at 09:20:28 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  the reason I ask is because (0+ / 0-)

        we've come to the point where specious charges of racism get one banned... but not yet to the point where specious charges of race-BAITING are.

        one's no better than the other.  if LG has to apologize for one, I don't see why you shouldn't have to for the other.

        This comment is dedicated to my mellow Adept2U and his Uncle Marcus

        by mallyroyal on Tue May 22, 2012 at 09:02:12 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site