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View Diary: I don't understand (295 comments)

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  •  Yes---thank you! It's Jonathan (2+ / 0-)
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    kovie, OhioNatureMom

    Altemeyer.  What both frustrates me and scares me at the same time is that I also believe as you do that these people ARE beyond reach.  So, how will we EVER make any changes or any progress when these people cannot be moved.  Do we have to sit back and wait for them to help destroy the country and then rebuild it after they've taken it down?!  Right now, I think we are headed on a downhill slide as a country that will not end well for anyone except the very wealthiest.  I don't are to have my fate determined by people who are incapable of changing or even allowing themselves to think about things from a different perspective than their leader feeds them.

    We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both. Louis D. Brandeis

    by 3goldens on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 08:56:41 PM PDT

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    •  Younger Americans have to be better educated (3+ / 0-)

      The more educated a people is, the more liberal they tend to be. Liberalism tracks with intellectual sophistication, which tracks with education. The two problems with that is that one, this takes decades, and two, the other side is actively and successfully trying to destroy our public education system, both for profit due to privatization, and because they know that a dumb electorate is a conservative electorate.

      Perhaps we need some sort of revolutionary cultural "jump start" to cut through all this, the way the 60's shattered 1950's cultural conservatism? I have no idea how that happens, with so many people addicted to the cultural crack that is "reality TV" and Twitter. But some sort of end run seems necessary, as slow and steady just doesn't work in our favor.

      "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

      by kovie on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 09:11:41 PM PDT

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      •  Interesting thought. We definitely do (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        OhioNatureMom

        need to find a way to blast through the ignorance that seems to flourish these days.  The absolute stupidity of people who voted FOR Scott Walker today leaves me blank-minded right now.  I can't comprehend it.  But if we don't find a way to get through the "noise" and deliberate disinformation, we are never going to break this Republican/Corporate hold on this country.

        We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both. Louis D. Brandeis

        by 3goldens on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 10:13:48 PM PDT

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        •  Long-term we have to MASSIVELY improve (3+ / 0-)
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          smileycreek, 3goldens, OhioNatureMom

          our public education system. I mean unrecognizably better, unimaginably better, disgustingly better, effectively raising the average IQ level by 10-20 points such that someone like Bush or McCain wouldn't stand a CHANCE. On the European model that much of the developing world like India and China has adopted, with a longer school year, longer school day, much tougher curriculum, much better trained teachers (who will remain unionized), and so on, with an emphasis on solid intellectual development, not rote lernin' on the still-prevalent 19th century model which taught students just enough to become good farmers or welders (not that there's anything wrong with either, but it just doesn't cut it anymore).

          If we do this, we will make it impossible to elect Repubs like these. IMPOSSIBLE. Intelligent people would never vote them in. But for that to happen, we have to get a long-term lock on power. And for THAT to happen, we have to become better at the GOP's game than they are. If that means lying, being vicious, being nasty, fighting dirty, then so be it. The stakes are too high to take the high road. We can't outspend or out-scumbag them, so we have to outsmart them, outwork them, outmaneuver them, outpropagandize them, and so on. Or we're dead.

          Basically, we have to adopt the Grant and Sherman model. For their AND our own good. We're in another civil war and this is the only way to win those.

          "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

          by kovie on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 10:25:03 PM PDT

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      •  I've said it elsewhere ... (3+ / 0-)
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        kovie, OhioNatureMom, 3goldens

        ... it's long past time we switch from "we shall overcome" to "by any means necessary."

        "A good president does what's possible and a great president changes what's possible." --sterno

        by sk4p on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 10:20:14 PM PDT

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        •  Key word being necessary (2+ / 0-)
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          OhioNatureMom, 3goldens

          There are things they do that we must not do, not just because they're wrong, but also unnecessary, e.g. stealing elections, breaking the law, voter intimination.

          "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

          by kovie on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 10:26:15 PM PDT

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