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View Diary: New Information Emerges on Pope John Paul II (308 comments)

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  •  Well first of all (2+ / 0-)
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    TomP, G2geek

    Wojtyla was appointed bishop by a cardinal who worked with the Soviet authorities Cardinal Wyszyński. It was and is common practice in Europe to give the government power of approval over appointments. This tradition dates back to the Dark Ages and cause many bloody disputes and wars. But as I indicated before he had a lot of powerful friends and allies in America, especially in the Polish American community. They were quite generous and in fact funded his extensive travels. But to write off Poland as weak and insignificant in Eastern Europe is to fundamentally misunderstand the history of the 20th century. Poland was a breadbasket for Eastern Europe as well as a heavy industry powerhouse. The Gdansk shipyards built much of the Soviet navy and was one of the largest producers of steel in the world. Poland's border with Germany was a constant source of worry to the leadership of the Soviet Union after WWII. Poland has been hotly disputed territory since the 1500s and for good reason.

    And yes there is a  difference between the bishops criticizing Ryan's budget proposal and a single bishop calling Obama a Nazi. I did not say that the church was right, just more complicated than you seem to understand. Just because some conservative lay Catholics cooperate with the Religious Right does not mean that the Religious Right is run be the Catholic church. For one thing the Church believes that most of those in the religious right should become catholic. Second the church does not recognize many of the rights enshrined in the constitution and would prepare to write one for us. Like they did in Ireland in the 1930s.

    The President is trying to force Roman Catholic institutions to do things they do not want to do. Like many times in history the argument is "Is the Church subject to secular control?" And the churches answer is no. like when priests refused to sign an oath of loyalty to the French government during the French Revolution. The church is looking out for what they see as their own interests. Like when they made an agreement with Hitler to keep quiet as long as they could run their own schools and continue to receive taxpayer subsides.

    •  Your command of history is wide (1+ / 0-)
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      fastwacks

      and accurate.  I don't agree, however, with all your conclusions.    It's not just some Catholic secular leaders in our country cooperating with the religious right.  A number of the Bishops have pushed the exact same agenda.  The Church does not run the religious right, but they are on a parallel track heading in the same direction, cooperating with each other when necessary.   (Of course, the religious right does not consider Catholics as Christians, and Catholic leadership maintains that only members of the Catholic faith in good standing will have eternal life. But each group serves a purpose presently for the other.)

      Yes, priests resisted the government in France, as some did in Germany and in most worn torn countries.  Priests end up on the winning and losing sides of political conflicts, and on the side of the people and others on the side of power.  But more often than not, the Church sides with a right wing type of power.

      "Since when did obeying corporate power become patriotic." Going the Distance

      by Going the Distance on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 11:14:50 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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