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View Diary: Collectivism versus Individualism: Billionaire funded distortion (8 comments)

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  •  As much as I admire Mr. Marx, what he had to say (0+ / 0-)

    in the above quote does not apply to the people I know who were raised and work in Communist societies, and having worked most of my life for two international organizations, I've known many. For example, one friend raised and still living in Nanking/Nanjing had a lifelong dream to be an audio engineer and orchestra conductor. Instead, for the collective good, he was forced to become a paleontologist, not a terrible career, but not what he wanted, not even close.  I realize you are talking about a socialist democracy, but the friend in my example lives in a communist tyrrany. Forms of government and economic systems are not necessarily yoked. It's important for us to draw this distinction as we appear to be in danger of sliding in the direction of a capitalist military dictatorship.

    Eliminate tax breaks that stimulate the offshoring of jobs.

    by RJDixon74135 on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 11:41:11 AM PDT

    •  China and Russia were never communist. (0+ / 0-)

      What Marx was talking about has nothing whatsoever to do with modern China or the Soviet Union, which really established State Capitalism, not communism.

      In fact, you can't have a "communist state." It's an oxymoron, as communism means the absence of a state, and follows real socialism, which those two nations never established, either.

      Real socialism must be democratic.

      Marx died in 1883. It baffles me that people keep saying he was wrong about this and that, when no one has really even tried to follow his thought on any large scale since he died. He actually said that socialism couldn't follow feudalism, and both China and Russia were basically feudal nations at the time of their respective revolutions. He would not have recommended revolution in either place at that time.

      Those revolutions were hijacked in both cases, and "Marxism" or "Socialism" became convenient labels for the anti-democratic disasters that followed. They were false labels. If Marx were alive today, he could sue them for slander and libel.

      •  Agreed (1+ / 0-)
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        Both were bureaucratic collectivist states that owned the means of production, while the surplus ("profit") was distributed among an elite party bureaucracy, rather than among the working class.

        One does not have to be Orwell or Schactman to recognize it.

        "There are many truths of which the full meaning cannot be realized until personal experience has brought it home." John Stuart Mill

        by kuvasz on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 02:14:11 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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