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View Diary: The hottest month on record underscores the danger of Mitt Romney and the Republicans (129 comments)

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  •  So -- now the question is this: Has anybody got (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Gooserock

    ideas on what the world can do about it?

    I specificy the world instead of 'we' because it's a global problem whose solutions need to reach across borders.

    The dilemma is China and other emerging economies who are not anxious -- maybe not even able -- to slow down their emissions growth.

    And there's a lot of growth.

    It seems like yesterday that China surpassed the US in total emissions and now they put out nearly twice the US total.  And... per capita emssions that have reached EU levels continue to grow rapidly.

    India is following a similar path, with emissions growing nearly as rapidly as those in China.

    LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

    by dinotrac on Sun Aug 12, 2012 at 10:43:22 AM PDT

    •  the dilemma is us too (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      maryabein, dinotrac, cai

      the blame-China thing might work if we were angels, but we're not. we've been spewing out max CO2 for a lot longer than they have. We own a lot more of the warming so far.

      An ambulance can only go so fast - Neil Young

      by mightymouse on Sun Aug 12, 2012 at 11:00:09 AM PDT

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      •  It is not blaming to state the truth. (0+ / 0-)

        Chinese emissions are growing by leaps and bounds while US emissions remain flat. The upshot of that is that nothing we do alone is going to reduce global emissions.  If we could magically flip a switch and completely eliminate all US emissions today, Chinese emissions would make up for the loss withing 5 years.

        And then there's the rest of the world.

        We need some real big thinking and some real audacious doing that goes beyond saying "Bad America, shame on you!"

        LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

        by dinotrac on Sun Aug 12, 2012 at 08:35:06 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  There Are All Kinds of Ideas If the World Could (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      orlbucfan, cai

      get permission.

      The first thing is that scientists need to step up to the plate and begin behaving rudely. Every other demographic has put their welfare and well-being on the line in the past, science knows better than anyone what the score is and what the machine needs from them where they can twist some arms.

      We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

      by Gooserock on Sun Aug 12, 2012 at 11:01:33 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Start in your own backyard. Start with yourself (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      too many people

      Make the theory about market forces work for us.

      I don't see the bigger aspects of government growing a pair about this issue any time soon.

      "Better than nothing," and "better late than never" simply won't cut the mustard now. We are too far gone for that.

      •  That sounds good until you think about it. (0+ / 0-)

        China, India, and other emerging economies find it hard to slow their emissions growth because internal pressures require economic growth.  The stability of governments is at stake.

        It's not so different in the US.  We have spent years exporting jobs overseas and have paid a terrible price in terms of real unemployment -- including those people who have simply dropped out of the labor force and fallen out of the numbers that define "official" unemployment.

        So -- cool. Begin in our own backyard, but how will you avoid sending even more jobs to China in moves that will shift where the emissions take place, but not actually reduce them?

        Putting Americans out of work so that you can shift emissions from the US to China and India is one way to start in our own backyard, but it doesn't do squat to address the problem.

        LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

        by dinotrac on Sun Aug 12, 2012 at 12:10:16 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  If you do nothing and they do nothing, then (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          too many people, mightymouse

          why bother posting?

          Why not just lay down and give it up now?

          I can only do what I can do.

          Even with Americans protesting in the streets, moving millions of dollars, voting our conscience--the powers that be make it very clear that they do not govern for me, but instead for the CEOs.

          Well fine then.

          I will start on my own plot in my own yard. That is all I can control now.

          I won't give up. At least I can say that I have been trying like hell to make good on something, even if I am the only one or one of a few.

          You can either be part of the problem or you can do what you can to get around the problem.

          It's your choice.

          •  Hopelessness is the new (0+ / 0-)

            Progressive.  ;-)

            "You're only allowed a certain number of flips before people begin to doubt your character." - Mitt Romney

            by rsmpdx on Sun Aug 12, 2012 at 04:37:55 PM PDT

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          •  Is that callousness talking? (0+ / 0-)

            I asked a question:

            how will you avoid sending even more jobs to China in moves that will shift where the emissions take place, but not actually reduce them?
            If you really want to make progress on the problem -- starting here at home -- you (or somebody else who is smarter than I am ) had best be coming up with answers to that question.

            I'm convinced that answers exist if we make it a priority to find them.  I believe that parts of the answer are already being pursued.

            Environmentalists don't always sound like they care about how gets hurt in the process. Remember Nancy Pelosi's "I am a friend of the earth" and "Drill, baby, drill" mock-chants back during the oil price run-up of 2008?

            Add the repeated broken promises by the last Congress and the present administration to focus on jobs, and you've got a political problem that needs to be addressed.

            Presuming that somebody cares enough to do it.

            LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

            by dinotrac on Sun Aug 12, 2012 at 04:48:51 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I don't know why you think if you turn this around (0+ / 0-)

              on me, that suddenly that is going to absolve the guilty parties of their crimes against the environment [and that would include the humans that live within it]

              Tell me again, how I don't give a damn. Really.

              I have never made much money. Therefore I don't matter in this world that exists now. If you are worried about jobs being sent to China, talk to bridgestone, and other manufacturers who set up shop over there, because it's cheaper and there are NO environmental laws or labor laws.

              Honestly Dinotrac, your reasoning sounds like my Republican Relatives at Thanksgiving.

              The kind of sweeping changes we need to make, will require that these people do something amazing when it comes to solving this problem.

              1. To Stop Making Excuses
              2. That their profits can still happen but won't be as high.
              3. That they acknowledge and act like their actions have consequences despite their role as "exalted job creators".
              4. That the pollution they create now will not disappear with a good quarterly report.

              I know that this will push thousands of people out of a job, but I would like to see an end to children's meal toys in the US. They only end up in landfills.

              I know that car manufacturers will rant, but I would like to see more focus on public transportation and less on individual cars.

              I would like to see emissions way way down.

              I would like to see our manufactureing focusing more on space exploration and terra forming, because we need that more than cheap plastic shit due to our very real, over population problem.

              I would like to see fracking companies switch to solar panel manufacturing and installation.

              We are going through Global Climate Change and a Mass Extinction. If you think that a good couple of Black Fridays will somehow stave off the consequences of that for humanity, then you have bigger issues than I can address in this small window.

              •  You are welcome to avoid the issues by obsessing (0+ / 0-)

                on who to blame.

                That will not resolve the problems.

                Here's a hint for you:

                I know that this will push thousands of people out of a job, but I would like to see an end to children's meal toys in the US. They only end up in landfills.
                In the United States, those people, their friends, and their families are known as voters. Refusing to care about the welfare of millions -- not thousands -- of people is another way of avoiding the problem.  Solutions that work only in fantasyland are not going to help the planet one bit.

                LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

                by dinotrac on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 07:26:12 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

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