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View Diary: Lee Malvo: Human Being or Monster (47 comments)

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  •  When someone purposefully kills another for the (0+ / 0-)

    fun of it, they deserve to be executed.   No one will ever convince me that any other human being doesn't innately know that it's wrong to kill for fun.  Even sociopaths know it's wrong...they just enjoy it.

    The longer I live, the clearer I perceive how unmatchable a compliment one pays when he says of a man "he has the courage to utter his convictions." Mark Twain

    by Persiflage on Sun Sep 30, 2012 at 02:21:46 PM PDT

    •  There is an article in current Military History... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Wee Mama

      magazine on the Mai Lai massacre by Americans in Viet Nam.  It described the very same state of mind, the dehumanization of the targeted human beings by the soldiers that was described by Malvo.

      An entire generation of Japanese and Germans were conditioned to kill large masses of people by means not unlike Malvo's conditioning.  Yes, those Axis troops were our enemies and we slaughtered them.  And Murderers are our enemies our instincts are to slaughter them also.

      In this case, Malvo came under the control of his dominating partner when he was a devastated 14 year old.  Perhaps he has to stay in jail, in solitary for the rest of his life?  But it's hard for me to understand what is gained by it.

      •  people have lived lives of wisdom and reflection (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        arodb, G2geek

        in prison. Straitened as the circumstances are, they still allow choices.



        Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary? . . . and respect the dignity of every human being.

        by Wee Mama on Sun Sep 30, 2012 at 03:16:17 PM PDT

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        •  Just read the Three Sieves... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Wee Mama, G2geek

          While it is good for starters, and for children, I would buy two out of three, True, for sure, and then kindness is balanced against "necessary."

          There are times, and issues that must be expressed, or I feel I must state them even if to some it will be unkind.  The justification must be that it is necessary, or "important" to state for reasons that I have to justify in what I am expressing.

          Buit when a comment is going to hurt someone, I try to take special effort to mitigate the injury.

      •  the difference in warfare is... (0+ / 0-)

        .... that the opposing forces are alive and running around on the battlefield.  Once they are captured it's improper and illegal to kill them in custody.

        "Minus two votes for the Republican" equals "plus one vote for the Democrat." Arithmetic doesn't care about their feelings either!

        by G2geek on Sun Sep 30, 2012 at 11:41:34 PM PDT

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      •  Nothing is gained for society. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mindara

        Except a knowledge that this person will not again be loose on the streets.   Sorta like Charles Manson.   Yes, there are differences, but to the dead and their families it's not a compelling distinction..

        The longer I live, the clearer I perceive how unmatchable a compliment one pays when he says of a man "he has the courage to utter his convictions." Mark Twain

        by Persiflage on Mon Oct 01, 2012 at 03:07:53 AM PDT

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        •  I am a family member of a murder victim (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          arodb

          and there is a compelling distinction. It does us no good as a society to move toward a system of justice utterly devoid of compassion and the ability to discern the very real differences between a Charles Manson and a Lee Malvo. And there is a direct correlation to be made between the utter lack of compassion in the justice system and the continuation of the death penalty in this country to the utter lack of compassion and empathy for our fellow Americans and the desire of the GOP to completely destroy our social safety net.

          As I also commented earlier, I live in Annapolis, MD and lived through those three horrific weeks in October 2002.

          "I believe that unarmed truth and unconditional love will have the final word in reality" Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

          by mindara on Mon Oct 01, 2012 at 09:02:19 AM PDT

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          •  I'm sorry about your family's loss. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            mindara

            I should have said there would be no compelling distinction to me.   If you are magnanimous enough to discern a difference in death at the hands of a Lee Malvo versus at the hands of someone else, that's your choice.  I want you to understand I'm saying that in an unchallenging and unjudgemental way.    

            The longer I live, the clearer I perceive how unmatchable a compliment one pays when he says of a man "he has the courage to utter his convictions." Mark Twain

            by Persiflage on Mon Oct 01, 2012 at 02:13:23 PM PDT

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            •  I think that it's very important to look at the (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              arodb

              motivation and circumstances of every case. And to not do so in the case of Lee Malvo is a mistake because the vital lessons that can be learned from his case go ignored and allow those circumstances to go unchecked in the future. Lee Malvo was only 15 years old when his mother allowed him to come to the US and placed him completely under John Allen Muhammed's control. And I appreciate your point of view, I mean that honestly, I feel that it is enormously important that we have this debate as a society.

              "I believe that unarmed truth and unconditional love will have the final word in reality" Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

              by mindara on Mon Oct 01, 2012 at 07:37:07 PM PDT

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              •  Your views obviously come from a big heart, a (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                arodb

                heart in some ways larger than my own.  I believe humans have an innate understanding of the difference between right and wrong when it comes to some types of behavior.  Killing, bullying, or torturing someone else for fun, or cruelty to animals, fall into those types of behavior...in my opinion.  When our brain tells us we wouldn't like to have something done to ourself that we are doing to others...or an animal...we know its wrong.  Some people do it anyway, for whatever their reasons might be...if they're caught and have to explain.

                So, for me, the punishment ought to fit the crime regardless of "circumstance" whenever the cruelty/death perpetrated on another falls into the "for fun" category.

                The longer I live, the clearer I perceive how unmatchable a compliment one pays when he says of a man "he has the courage to utter his convictions." Mark Twain

                by Persiflage on Tue Oct 02, 2012 at 05:44:48 AM PDT

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    •  So killing for fun is worse than killing (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      G2geek

      for profit?

      To put the torture behind us is, inevitably, to put it in front of us.

      by UntimelyRippd on Sun Sep 30, 2012 at 04:31:56 PM PDT

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      •  Youre the only one talking about it. (0+ / 0-)

        Why not make a diary instead of planting yourself in someone else's with your pet issue?

        •  Blah blah. (0+ / 0-)

          98% of everything you post around here is pointless (and largely witless) argumentation, and you're going to take me to task over an authentic question about how people judge the evil in other persons, a question I offered in a diary whose essential question has to do with the judgement of evil in one particular person?

          Funny, BTW, that you directly connect this to my other comment, projecting on to me a spamlike agenda that doesn't actually exist. My comments are related in theme -- but only because they are both related to the theme of this discussion. In this case, the comment to which I responded highlighted "killing for fun" as particularly egregious. I'm asking the simple Socratic question: Is there, then, something about killing for fun that makes it worse than killing for material gain?

          It's not a subtle question, but is not off-topic either. You, on the other hand, are just making noise.

          To put the torture behind us is, inevitably, to put it in front of us.

          by UntimelyRippd on Sun Sep 30, 2012 at 07:02:28 PM PDT

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        •  that particular comment raises an... (0+ / 0-)

          ... insightful question, so it's not out of place.

          I don't know what other comment history you might be referring to.

          "Minus two votes for the Republican" equals "plus one vote for the Democrat." Arithmetic doesn't care about their feelings either!

          by G2geek on Sun Sep 30, 2012 at 11:42:58 PM PDT

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          •  Me neither since I didn't bring up comment history (0+ / 0-)

            The diary is about a domestic serial killer/helper. It's about him, and perhaps only also relevant to others domestic civilian serial killers, particular ones that are manipulated into conducting these activities. The only reason to bring up Dick Cheney is because the commenter doesn't think it's being talked about enough, and so decided to start it up in an unrelated diary.

    •  18% of death penalty cases.... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      arodb

      ... where the convicted person appealed on the grounds of innocence, and got the DNA evidence examined, were found to be wrongful convictions: the guy really did not commit the murder.

      So: given the numbers, do you want to send a predictable number of innocent people to the death chamber?

      "Minus two votes for the Republican" equals "plus one vote for the Democrat." Arithmetic doesn't care about their feelings either!

      by G2geek on Sun Sep 30, 2012 at 11:40:04 PM PDT

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      •  No one questions Malvo's guilt (0+ / 0-)

        I'm not arguing the pros and cons of our justice system.  

        The longer I live, the clearer I perceive how unmatchable a compliment one pays when he says of a man "he has the courage to utter his convictions." Mark Twain

        by Persiflage on Mon Oct 01, 2012 at 02:57:24 AM PDT

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        •  yes you are. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          arodb, Persiflage

          You made the generalized statement, "When someone purposely kills another for the fun of it, they should be executed."

          That's not the same thing as saying "Malvo deliberately killed others for the fun of it, so he should be executed."  

          Making the general statement opens up the general subject.

          As for Malvo: is a kid under the influence of a Svengali more or less culpable than a kid under the influence of a gang?

          To my mind, where an individual is thoroughly manipulated into a criminal behavior, those who did the manipulating are the ones who bear the full culpability for the acts they caused.

          Further, I would hold abusive parents responsible as accessories to crimes their kids commit, right up to the age of 21, and possibly beyond.  That future responsibility would accrue as part of the penalty for being found guilty of child abuse.   And yes, there are some abused kids who would go off and commit crimes just to see their abusive parents imprisoned, even if they themselves were also imprisoned into the deal.  It would take only a handful of such cases, widely publicized, to put parents on notice that they will face ongoing consequences for abusing their children.

          Alternately, we just make serious child abuse punishable by up to and including life w/o parole in severe cases.  And then enforce the law ruthlessly.  

          Bottom line is, the planet is severely overpopulated as it is, so it's necessary to shift from "quantity" to "quality" when it comes to adding any more humans.  Those who damage their offspring deserve to be dealt with harshly.  

          Further, a diagnosis of rage disorder or conviction of any crime of force or fraud, would carry the additional penalty of surgical sterilization.   Nowhere in the US Constitution is there anything about a "right" to reproduce.  It may have historically been assumed, but that assumption is groundless.  But even if one assumes a "right" to reproduce, that "right", as with one's 2nd Amendment rights, can be rescinded as a penalty for certain categories of criminal offenses.  

          Lastly but by no means leastly:

          If we are going to try juvenile offenders as adults, then the age at which they become eligible for that treatment is the age at which they should also gain the right to vote.

          The logic for this is identical for that with the logic of lowering the voting age to 18 during the Vietnam war: if you're old enough to die for your country, you're old enough to vote.   Thus if you're old enough to be tried for crimes as an adult, you're old enough to vote as an adult.  

          Know what?  I think I'm going to start agitating for that.  

          "Minus two votes for the Republican" equals "plus one vote for the Democrat." Arithmetic doesn't care about their feelings either!

          by G2geek on Mon Oct 01, 2012 at 04:10:31 AM PDT

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          •  You make some points. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            arodb

            I'm not going to argue your interpretation of my statement or your thoughts above.  I often read your stuff and generally respect what you have to say.  I've either inadvertently poked your button or you've had a bad day.

            Fortunately for Mr. Malvo, what I think doesn't matter.  If it did, he'd be very unhappy and life in the slammer would look real good.

            The longer I live, the clearer I perceive how unmatchable a compliment one pays when he says of a man "he has the courage to utter his convictions." Mark Twain

            by Persiflage on Mon Oct 01, 2012 at 04:58:32 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

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