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View Diary: Republicans plan their October Surprise. Obama, and Pentagon, may well be planning a different sort. (221 comments)

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  •  Have you been the target of either? (0+ / 0-)

    If not, then what basis do you have for this?

    "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

    by kovie on Tue Oct 02, 2012 at 03:06:53 PM PDT

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    •  People have been waging war for centuries (6+ / 0-)

      Never heard of anyone caring about swords versus arrows, cannon versus musket, et cetera.

      Romney economics: Feed our seed corn to the fattest pigs and trust them to poop out jobs.

      by blue aardvark on Tue Oct 02, 2012 at 03:14:38 PM PDT

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    •  My mom has. /nt (0+ / 0-)

      "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold...The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity" -W.B. Yeats

      by LucyandByron on Tue Oct 02, 2012 at 03:59:11 PM PDT

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      •  So has mine (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        joe from Lowell, Kevvboy

        Well, technically the butt end of a military rifle while watching her home get blown up at the age of 8. And my cousin almost got killed by a scud during the first gulf war. Luckily, no one was hurt, physically at least. Neither became a terrorist.

        Point being that just as I can't imagine what such experiences did to them and can't tell the difference in effect of these types of attacks, no one else can.

        "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

        by kovie on Tue Oct 02, 2012 at 04:18:48 PM PDT

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        •  It's interesting to look at where... (3+ / 0-)

          terrorists come from.

          As it turns out, virtually none of the terrorists who have attacked the United States come from countries with whom we have been at war.  Rather, they virtually all come from dictatorships who are American allies, and against whom we have never been at war.

          The 9/11 hijackers were all Saudis, Egyptians, Yemenis, and Emiratis.  Bin Laden is Saudi, KSM Kuwaiti, Dr. Zawahiri Egyptian.  Yemenis carried out the Cole bombing.  The Underwear Bomber was Nigerian.  It is very, very rare to find anyone associated with al Qaeda who is Iraqi, Iranian, Afghan, or from country we have waged war against.

          War makes people want to take up arms, but that doesn't translate into wanting to slaughter random citizens of the other country.  The terrorist isn't an extreme version of the soldier, but of the political protester.

          Art is the handmaid of human good.

          by joe from Lowell on Tue Oct 02, 2012 at 04:31:16 PM PDT

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          •  We've been attacking Yemen for years now (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            JayBat

            which muddies your argument, but point taken. Plus, it's simplistic to assume that the actual victims of our attacks or their relatives will become terrorists. I suspect that merely seeing such attacks on TV turns people in other countries against the US, and makes excellent fodder for terrorist leaders to recruit such people.

            It's a law of unintended consequences thing. And the more egregious or egregious-seeming the action, be it guns, drones, bombs or supporting dictators, the more likely if harder to specifically predict the consequences. Let's just say that drones might not be worse than guns (although I suspect they are, because they're something really creepy about being attacked from invisible things in the sky), but they create yet another reason for people to be upset with us.

            How about no guns, drones, bombs OR supporting dictators?

            "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

            by kovie on Tue Oct 02, 2012 at 04:41:59 PM PDT

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            •  And no Yemeni attacks since that began. (0+ / 0-)

              The Yemeni government is, and was, our ally.

              Again, the "unintended consequences" thing has a data problem.  If such attacks made terrorism against us more likely at all, then there would be some correlation.

              But there isn't such a correlation - and what's more, there is a strong negative correlation.

              There are very good reasons to argue against military action, but "creating terrorists who will attack us" just isn't one of them.

              Art is the handmaid of human good.

              by joe from Lowell on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 10:48:16 AM PDT

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          •  part of what confuses the discussion (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            little lion

            is that america's government also has a history of calling people who shoot back at us when we occupy their country "terrorists."

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