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View Diary: Transgender(?) Bird Observed in New Zealand (23 comments)

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  •  a gender dysphoric bird - diesel Tweet! /nt (10+ / 0-)

    yksitoista ulotteinen presidentin shakki. / tappaa kaikki natsit "Nous sommes un groupuscule" (-9.50; -7.03) 政治委员, 政委‽ Warning - some snark above ‽

    by annieli on Fri Oct 12, 2012 at 04:10:40 PM PDT

    •  hardly dysphoric if it's not dissatisfied with.... (3+ / 0-)

      ... its own existence, whether by its own inherent feelings, or by some kind of feedback from other members of its species.  

      Gender dysphoria only arises where an individual wishes to live according to personal gender norms that are the subject of derision and penalties by their society.  

      In non-industrial cultures that don't have access to high-tech medicine, transgender identity can be accommodated through styles of dress, ways of forming and enacting relationships, ceremonial roles, and so on.

      In the present state of technological cultures, we also have surgical means to contribute to the completeness of someone's chosen gender identity.

      In a future state of technological culture, we may have means that use genetic medicine, so the transformation of the physical body to match the chosen gender identity is more complete than at present.  

      In some advanced state of genetic medicine it may be possible to work the complete and total transformation of the individual body to a state that is identical with what would have occurred if they were born with their chosen identity's typical genetic makeup.  

      As a generalization, individuals seem to be satisfied with whatever degree of gender transformation is accessible to their culture: whether through clothing and cultural roles, or through surgery, or hypothetically through some future means.  

      "Minus two votes for the Republican" equals "plus one vote for the Democrat." Arithmetic doesn't care about their feelings either!

      by G2geek on Fri Oct 12, 2012 at 04:21:45 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  OK,OK so the bird has trouble with unisex toilets (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Tonedevil, rserven
        It could be due to a hormonal imbalance or it could be a reaction to shock or an incomplete moult
        Gender dysphoria only(?) arises where an individual wishes to live according to personal gender norms that are the subject of derision and penalties by their society.  

        yksitoista ulotteinen presidentin shakki. / tappaa kaikki natsit "Nous sommes un groupuscule" (-9.50; -7.03) 政治委员, 政委‽ Warning - some snark above ‽

        by annieli on Fri Oct 12, 2012 at 04:27:19 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  birdies don't use toilets. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          marina, AaronInSanDiego

          In nature's wisdom to conserve unnecessary weight, birds don't have sphincters.  The reason they poop on your car is because they had no choice about the matter while flying overhead.  

          Re. my "only":  

          Hypothetical 1:  Someone is born into a culture that doesn't have high tech medicine, e.g. First Nations tribe hundreds of years ago.  They are born male but express female identity.  Their society accepts that and has a cultural role for the individual, that expresses their status as someone who was born with the mind of one gender and the body of another.

          Hypothetical 2:  Someone is born into a culture that does have high tech medicine.  They are born male but express female identity.  Their society accepts that and makes arrangements for them to begin a process that might, if all other factors continue to hold, culminate in gender surgery.

          So far there is no basis for dysphoria, though there might be dissatisfaction ("I'm stuck being a boy/man until I can undergo the ceremony/surgery/etc. to become a girl/woman.").   That kind of dissatisfaction has a clear path toward being resolved, just as a kid (regardless of gender) who wants to become a soldier or a schoolteacher or whatever, has a clear path forward to reach those goals.  

          But if the society imposes derision and other penalties, then the individual is forced into a position where they have no path forward: like someone who is denied entry into college because of race or economic class.  At that point, they become dysphoric about the circumstances of their birth, the injustice of arbitrary societal rules, and so on.  

          The dysphoria (chronic negative emotional state) arises when there is no path forward, and when the individual is denied equal human dignity.  

          "Minus two votes for the Republican" equals "plus one vote for the Democrat." Arithmetic doesn't care about their feelings either!

          by G2geek on Fri Oct 12, 2012 at 04:40:21 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  You know I have great respect for many things (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        rserven, annieli

        you say. This, however is a bigoted response.

        where an individual wishes to live
        someone's chosen gender identity
        My gender dysphoria was not a choice nor a wish.  

        IN FACT, I prayed to God™ (™ by Catholic Church) almost every night NOT to be the way I was.  The self-inflicted torture I endured lasted for years.  Why was I like this? Why don't I think like my brother? What does he have that I'm missing? Why won't God take these feelings from me? Why am I so evil? What's wrong with me? I must be gay but just can't accept it. I must be something other than me.  WHAT WAS WRONG WITH ME?!!!

        I tried hiding it for years, attempting to be "the man I was born to be." I was a bodybuilder and an athlete and I failed miserably. I must be gay, I lived as a gay man for over 5 yrs, thinking half a life is better than none...BUT I became an alcoholic in my vain attempts to hide and deny who I was, to force myself to accept what society allowed...I could be gay, that was just becoming sort of acceptable, sort of.  Just don't talk about it to anyone...I found if I was drunk, I didn't feel anything.  Better not to feel than to face reality.  I attempted suicide twice and almost succeeded the second time, being dead almost 8 minutes.  Damn those doctors!  

        Those were my corrupted thoughts, THEN.  

        The breakthrough moment for me, March 22, 1989...the day I became sober.  Live as I am or die trying.

        There was no other choices, there were no wishes.  Society's opinion of me meant nothing. It held no power any longer. I didn't want what society offered, it's death and destruction was not for me.

        So, respectfully, you do not know what you are talking about.

        If I wanted society's approval, I'd be the man they told me I had to be, not the woman, scratch that the PERSON I am today.

        Gender is like a pendulum, as it swings from side to side, we all fall into the spectrum from exclusively male or female on either end and varying degrees in between.

        Today, I am just me. Both aspects of my being are one.

        I can change the brakes, oil and damn motor mounts on my car and I'll be damned if I break a nail doing it!

        So, please don't try to explain what we feel or why we do what it is we do.  Your response reminds me of the archaic pseudo-psychiatrists of bygone days that "knew" what was wrong with me by just talking to mother BEFORE they talked to me.

        Those same "psychiatrists" that told us that being gay was a mental disorder and that we shouldn't be around children.

        But I do hope you will try and have compassion for us, we are, after all, human too.  You may not understand, but do you really need to?

        This, I will repeat, IT IS NOT ABOUT SOCIETY. Nor is it a wish or choice.  

        -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

        by gerrilea on Sat Oct 13, 2012 at 01:21:22 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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