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View Diary: A legal artifact of slavery (96 comments)

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  •  I agree, but slavery was far more than personal (20+ / 0-)

    cruelty, which can only go so far.  Bank loans etc. were made based on slaves as collateral.

    You have exactly 10 seconds to change that look of disgusting pity into one of enormous respect!

    by Cartoon Peril on Sat Nov 10, 2012 at 07:41:39 AM PST

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    •  assets (17+ / 0-)

      I agree with you that it is the mundane and the level of normativity that is the most perverse, especially when viewed from our era.    

      Words can sometimes, in moments of grace, attain the quality of deeds. --Elie Wiesel

      by a gilas girl on Sat Nov 10, 2012 at 11:11:50 AM PST

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      •  Yes, perverse. That is the word that I was using (6+ / 0-)

        in my original comment. That is the discussion I am looking for.

        "But Brandine, you're supposed to be in Iraq stopping 911!"

        by leftyguitarist on Sat Nov 10, 2012 at 02:00:12 PM PST

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        •  It was all about the money. (0+ / 0-)

          I personally do not see the benefit of dwelling on a situation that was ended more than a century ago by a civil war overwhelmingly fought by white people.

          The diarist seems eager to prove "perversion". I call it slave porn, and people interested in it seem distressingly similar to other pornography addicts.

          Yes, racism exists. So does misogyny. As does pedophilia and other evils. If someone wants to wallow in victimhood, that is entirely their choice.

          If one feels the need to discover their "roots", that's up to them. But I believe where one comes form is less important than where one is or where one is going.

          And wasting time on slave porn is not helpful.

          "I believe more women should carry guns. I believe armed women will make the world a better place. Women need to come to think of themselves not as victims but as dangerous." Anna Pigeon

          by glorificus on Sat Nov 10, 2012 at 04:06:45 PM PST

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          •  Actually there's great value (13+ / 0-)

            To be had in understanding how fundamental "realities" about human consciousness do in fact change over time...and these examples presented in this diary illustrate how understandings about something as basic as what constitutes a person vs. property are not in fact universals at all.

            You may not see any value in it personally, but that doesn't mean that other people, with an eye toward understanding the way human beings make the conditions of their existence meaningful (and to some degree real) over time and in different places.

            Words can sometimes, in moments of grace, attain the quality of deeds. --Elie Wiesel

            by a gilas girl on Sat Nov 10, 2012 at 06:14:55 PM PST

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          •  You could have skipped the diary - you do have (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            swampyankee, Cartoon Peril, MichaelNY

            freedom to choose which diaries you read.

          •  You don't see the benefit of consciousness-raising (4+ / 0-)

            about slavery? That's really too bad. Slavery and the murder and dispossession of the Native Americans were two of the most fundamental aspects of American history, and the more we study and are conscious of the way they were begun and perpetuated, the better we understand ourselves.

            And you confuse the diarist here with others responding to the diary:

            The diarist seems eager to prove "perversion".
            Nope. Read what Cartoon Peril says:
            I must disagree with the evil motive theory

            No doubt there were slave owners who were cruel,  perverse, etc.  But eventually those emotions run out and can't be used to build a permanent society.  

            The quiet legal-fication (if I can make a word there) of slavery, and its permanent incorporation into the economic environment were much more effective.

            Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

            by MichaelNY on Sun Nov 11, 2012 at 01:23:01 AM PST

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            •  You're correct, I mis-identified the comment (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Cartoon Peril

              I responded to as the diarist.

              I apologize to Cartoon Peril.

              And no, I don't see the benefit to conscious-raising about slavery, beyond saying it's immoral and evil. I think some find the stories of slaves being raped and abused as titillating - that's why I call it slave porn.

              I do see a benefit regarding the genocide attempted against the Indians and in the Holocaust against the many groups the Nazis didn't like.

              And Great FSM,

              the more we study and are conscious of the way they were begun and perpetuated, the better we understand ourselves.
              Where and what is evidence of this greater understanding?

              Voter suppression?

              I'm not impressed.

              "I believe more women should carry guns. I believe armed women will make the world a better place. Women need to come to think of themselves not as victims but as dangerous." Anna Pigeon

              by glorificus on Sun Nov 11, 2012 at 06:17:15 AM PST

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              •  You apparently think (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                swampyankee

                that learning about history, which is where we came from, is rarely useful. I don't understand why. It's like questioning why we should be interested in astronomy or biology or geography. All those disciplines help us to understand the context in which we live.

                Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

                by MichaelNY on Sun Nov 11, 2012 at 06:19:38 AM PST

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                •  I think learning about history is great, and we (0+ / 0-)

                  don't do enough of it. I see the focus on slave porn here at DK where little else is brought forward as lop-sided and, as I said, unnecessary.

                  Maybe there have been lots of diaries on here discussing American political history or the benefits of Marovengians or philosophies of ancient China and I haven't seen them.

                  "I believe more women should carry guns. I believe armed women will make the world a better place. Women need to come to think of themselves not as victims but as dangerous." Anna Pigeon

                  by glorificus on Sun Nov 11, 2012 at 06:29:34 AM PST

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                  •  Where's the porn in this? (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    swampyankee

                    It's a legal document.

                    Besides, I disagree with you on that, too. You think photographs of slaves or genocides are not important historical documents?

                    Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

                    by MichaelNY on Sun Nov 11, 2012 at 06:36:04 AM PST

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                  •  Enslaving a people or individual can be (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    swampyankee, glorificus

                    accomplished in more ways than actually physically having ownership of their bodies. The financial aspect is really important because we continue to enslave in the general sense everyday thru low wages, lack of opportunity and poor educational options. Citizens of whole countries are enslaved, again in the general sense by things like Colonialism. It is one thing to be able to go to the bank and borrow against the value of your slaves, but we also moved to oppress whole groups like Native Americans, take everything of value and giving them nothing in return. Colonialism did the same thing striping everything of value while ignoring the welfare of indigenous people. Slavery in all its forms is hardly gone, just evolved into something less likely to be recognized for what it really is and in some ways more socially acceptable in modern day capitalism.

                    The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die. ~ Edward M. (Ted) Kennedy

                    by cherie clark on Sun Nov 11, 2012 at 06:47:23 AM PST

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