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View Diary: The kids will destroy the GOP (318 comments)

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  •  If the GOP ever adopted a more libertarian stance (19+ / 0-)

    I'd be worried -

    If they basically took the Gary Johnson road of legalize everything, stopped fighting on abortion-women's healthcare - they'd pull a chunk of those young voters back.

    But they're not that smart.

    The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. --George Orwell

    by jgkojak on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 10:01:15 AM PST

    •  And libertarianism isn't that good (24+ / 0-)

      Don't forget, "legalize everything" really means "let the states handle it all" closely followed by "privatize everything that's left". So no EPA, no Medicare, no Civil Rights, no roads, no internet, no jobs (they'll gladly ship every last one of them overseas). We'd have to show the youth how that will be a disaster for them but we can do it.

      To me progress is not so much a goal as it is a process and I believe it will not follow a straight course. Remember, the drops of water that form the river may not take the shortest path but they will still reach the ocean.

      by ontheleftcoast on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 10:10:55 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  libertarianism is bullshit (9+ / 0-)

        I flirted with the idea very briefly in college while joining up with a libertarian on a class project.  Bright guy and very cool.  But when it came down to it, even he couldn't defend libertarianism.  I've always said if I wasn't a Democrat I would become an anarchist.  The other choices are much too frightening.  Libertarians, like Republicans, want just as much government as Democrats.  In fact, they want more government.  They just want it legislated differently.

        "Never before in all our history have these forces been so united against one candidate as they stand today. They are unanimous in their hate for me--and I welcome their hatred." Franklin D. Roosevelt

        by djbender on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 10:56:43 AM PST

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        •  unless there's no Dem on the ballot :) (0+ / 0-)

          Where I live (Texas) a lot of down-ballot races have no Dem on the ballot.  I vote straight Dem, then check Lib in races where there is no Dem running.

          I know that's not what you were talking about, but I do salute the Libertarians' persistence.  

          All your votes are belong to us.

          by frankw9 on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 11:27:14 AM PST

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          •  I did the opposite. (0+ / 0-)

            How do you meld Libertarian and District Judge?  No respect for laws, government or shared responsibility is my take on the Libertarian agenda.  I voted Green if possible, and none of the above when the choice was L or R.

            I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

            by I love OCD on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 01:00:21 PM PST

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        •  Thom Hartmann's quote about Libertarians (8+ / 0-)

          "Libertarians are just Republicans that want to smoke dope."

          To me progress is not so much a goal as it is a process and I believe it will not follow a straight course. Remember, the drops of water that form the river may not take the shortest path but they will still reach the ocean.

          by ontheleftcoast on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 11:32:03 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Fuller Thom Hartmann quote (8+ / 0-)

            about Libertarians. You left out the naughty bit.

            http://www.thomhartmann.com/...

            I've often said that Libertarians are Republicans who want to smoke dope and get laid (they're in favor of decriminalizing pot and prostitution), but what Rand Paul is showing us that their worldview goes much farther than even a Republican like Richard Nixon - who brought us the EPA - would.  

            Libertarians believe we the people have no right to collectively get together and create an institution called government to protect ourselves from predators.  Instead, Libertarians believe in kingdom rather than democracy - they want the kingdoms of rich people and their corporations to have final say in all things both public and private, and thus total control over our lives.  And, amazingly enough, they call this "freedom."  

            In a way it is freedom - if you're a billionaire.  But as FDR famously said in 1936, a necessitous man - a hungry man with no home or job - is not a free man.  Government does have a role to play in protecting our commons and us, and the bizarre political theology of Rand Paul would totally undo the great work the Founders of our nation and Framers of our Constitution created.

            •  yeah, I left out the part about them (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              AZGoob

              effectively being the new Royalist party. If Jefferson knew that Libertarians thought they were crafted in his image he'd puke on them while spinning in his grave.

              To me progress is not so much a goal as it is a process and I believe it will not follow a straight course. Remember, the drops of water that form the river may not take the shortest path but they will still reach the ocean.

              by ontheleftcoast on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 12:19:09 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  Not exactly true (2+ / 0-)

            Republicans still smoke dope without becoming Libertarians.  Libertarians are cool with everyone smoking dope.  Republicans think only they should be able to smoke dope.  

            "Never before in all our history have these forces been so united against one candidate as they stand today. They are unanimous in their hate for me--and I welcome their hatred." Franklin D. Roosevelt

            by djbender on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 12:26:27 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  that would be very bad for them. (4+ / 0-)

      they would lose their socially conservative base, as well as their big business base that depends on government for all kinds of things like subsidies, tax benefits, scientific and medical research, infrastructure, huge military spending., etc, etc.

      they would also probably lose moderates who want the government to provide basic protections against corporate tyranny.

    •  Wouldn't they lose more than they'd gain? (0+ / 0-)

      Put another way, is libertarianism really that popular?

      First they'd lose the Christian right/social conservatives by not aggressively fighting abortion, gay marriage, etc. and pursuing holy wars in the Middle East.

      They'd lose whatever neocons there still are.

      A lot of the law-and-order types who vote Republican would be gone too, generally being against legalizing drugs and going softer on crime.  (Kind of a forgotten issue these days, but crime was not long ago a major issue nationally.)

      They'd lose a decent sized chunk of the business community, which generally likes it when the government funnels money its way.  (The military-industrial complex ain't just the military.)

      They would NOT gain support from people in the middle and on the left who generally like the social safety net, Medicare, Social Security, consumer protection, environmental regulation, workplace safety, and so forth.

      However, I would guess the party would be HUGE in the video gamer community.

      Gary Johnson, we have to remember, got 1 million votes this year, the best performance ever by a Libertarian party candidate but not an exceptionally strong performance by a third-party candidate.  That's about an average performance by Ralph Nader.  Ed Clark, also a Libertarian, got nearly that many votes in 1980 (about 920,000)---and he came in fourth place behind Reagan, Carter and Anderson.  Third-party candidates trounced Johnson's vote totals in 1992, 1996 and 2000 as well.

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