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View Diary: I know you think praying at government events is normal, but it's really not. (302 comments)

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  •  Liberty and Regency law schools actually (34+ / 0-)

    teach this and judges like Roy Moore believes it sincerely so in some courts, Christian Sharia law is already in effect

    •  That is so true (15+ / 0-)

      Additional evidence is the limp prosecution of the Catholic pedophiles. Deference to the church on full display.

      Medical service exemptions - religious law on full display.

      Any employer or university, etc. that can not offer a full range of health insurance for religious reasons, should be barred from offering any health insurance.

      Bet they would change their policy real fast, as enrollment drops like a stone or they can't find employees willing to work for them.

    •  There are also several states, (18+ / 0-)

      Mostly in the South, where it is unconstitutional (under their state constitutions) for an unbeliever to be an officeholder. I've known this for a while and I still can't figure out how they get to violate the "no religious test" part of the Consitution with impunity..

      "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."........ "The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." (yeah, same guy.)

      by sidnora on Sat Nov 10, 2012 at 04:29:36 PM PST

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      •  They "get away with it" because they don't enforce (7+ / 0-)

        those theocratic provisions, nor can they due to the 14th Amendment and the Incorporation Doctrine.

        All of those state constitutions were written before the bill of rights was applied to the states.

        Of course the southern states still frequently try to slip some theocracy in, but they get struck down pretty often when they do it.

        •  until they re-elect (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Calamity Jean, Thorby Baslim, sidnora, BYw

          the judge who loves the 10 commandments more than his job.

          Ted Kennedy: “The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die…”

          by jlms qkw on Sat Nov 10, 2012 at 08:22:32 PM PST

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        •  Actually, no (7+ / 0-)

          The constitutions of the former Confederate states were all written after the war at the insistence of the then-occupying federal government.

          It happened that I was reading the Tennessee state constitution the other night, which dates from 1870. It prohibits religious tests but then goes right on to bar ministers from the legislature (on the amusing basis that their services are desperately needed in the churches) and then bars atheists from holding any state office.

          Naturally, these provisions are unenforceable due to the federal constitution, but I don't have to tell you that the odds of them being removed during a constitutional convention are even lower than finding the necessary state legislators willing to call a convention for that purpose in the first place.

          And in case you're wondering, yes, even after thirty years it is still surreal to live here.

          And the bright side of the downward thermodynamic spiral is, um...

          by eodell on Sat Nov 10, 2012 at 10:38:24 PM PST

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          •  Actually, yes. (5+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            lotlizard, Pluto, lazybum, sidnora, BYw

            While the 14th Amendment passed in 1868 the Incorporation Doctrine didn't even begin until about 1925 and it still isn't really complete.   Everson v Board of Ed is from 1947, Torcaso v Watkins dates from 1961, and the Lemon Test is from 1971.

            Those theocratic post-civil war constitutions were very much enforced until case law was established which long post-dates the 14th Amendment.

          •  But isn't the mere (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            BYw

            presence of these provisions a form of discrimination, in that they would intimidate any atheist who considered running for office?

            I see the analogy to state laws that outlaw sodomy or other private behavior that were mostly ignored (until it happened to be convenient to not ignore them), but these rules speak to the most public kind of behavior; it's not something you could just just choose to conceal while running for office.

            "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."........ "The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." (yeah, same guy.)

            by sidnora on Sun Nov 11, 2012 at 06:48:33 AM PST

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      •  They can violate it with impunity (14+ / 0-)

        so long as no one is elected to office in that state with standing to challenge the law. If someone insists on applying it. Sometimes they don't, nutty laws can stay on the books for decades and never be applied.

        North Carolina's constitution barred atheists from office. An atheist was elected to the Asheville city council in 2009, the sore loser tried to apply it. The city didn't put up a fight, knew it couldn't win based on Torcaso v. Watkins, 1961, and he's still on the council today.

      •  This is a landmine law, that's how. (8+ / 0-)

        A "landmine law" is a term I made up to describe those cases where a more local (in this case State constitution) law is suppressed by the law of a higher jurisdiction (in this case Federal constitution), such that the more local law stays on the books LONG after it stopped being enforced.  It's illegal to enforce the state law so long as the federal law overrides it and says that law is illegal.  However, the state law doesn't go away.  It stays on the books, and in fact most people don't even know it's there.  The entire state population might have moved on to a different position long ago and might not be the sort of population anymore that today would have enacted that law, but they don't repeal the law for two reasons: 1 - They don't see it in action doing anything heinous while it's not legal to enforce it, and 2 - it takes a hell of a lot of effort to get a law changed, and putting in that sort of effort to make a change that exists only on paper with no real world effect right away is a hard political sell.

        So the law stays.  

        And then if the federal law that's suppressing the local law ever changes, that local law sitting on the books that everyone forgot about suddenly springs back into existence again (surprise)! and is used by those who, unlike the majority of the population, still like the way the law used to be and take advantage of the fact that it was laying there in the books all along waiting to be triggered again, like a landmine buried during long forgotten war that's still capable of being set off.

        •  Aren't some states passing laws outlawing abortion (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Pluto, sidnora, BYw

          … on this very principle? The idea being that while such laws are unenforceable as long as Roe v. Wade remains on the books, at some point there will be a new SCOTUS decision, at which time … ka-boom!

          The Dutch kids' chorus Kinderen voor Kinderen wishes all the world's children freedom from hunger, ignorance, and war.

          by lotlizard on Sun Nov 11, 2012 at 01:59:40 AM PST

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          •  No need to pass anything. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            lotlizard, BYw

            Most of those states never legalized abortion to begin with. Their "landmine laws" (I like that analogy!) were on the books before Roe was decided, and are still there.

            The laws they've passed since 1973 are all ones that can be enforced under Roe. At this point they are so invasive and so widespread that their practical effect is not much different than if Roe were overturned. But if it ever is overturned, all those pre-1973 statutes would automatically become the law of the land again.

            "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."........ "The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." (yeah, same guy.)

            by sidnora on Sun Nov 11, 2012 at 06:57:38 AM PST

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      •  When I was in second grade in 1975 (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Pluto, blueoasis, not a cent, sidnora, BYw

        the teacher read a Bible verse every morning and then led all of us in the Lord's Prayer. Prayer in public schools was abolished in 1962 - 13 years earlier.

        When I asked my mom about it she just laughed. "Ohio is the buckle on the Bible belt. Who was going to complain?"

        When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained. - Mark Twain

        by Late Again on Sat Nov 10, 2012 at 10:38:58 PM PST

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