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View Diary: Trolls Strike Back on White House Petition Site (30 comments)

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  •  Chief Illiniwek, dressed in Sioux (Oglala)... (13+ / 0-)

    ...regalia, gave "recognition" to Illinois Indians how?

    I will wager $50 that not one U of I student in 5,000 chanting "Chief! Chief!" at football games knows the name of a single one of the 20 or so Indian tribes that this mascot supposedly gave recognition to.

    Or that the descendants of the Indians who once lived on the land where the university stands are residents of Oklahoma, in consequence of war and pressure by white settlers. Tribal lands in Oklahoma were allotted to individuals by the Dawes Act of 1887. By the time World War I started, not a single acre of commonly held tribal land remained. The tribe's sovereign relationship with the federal government was "terminated" in 1959 and not restored until 1978.

    But, of course, that's not as exciting as watching an Illinois "Indian" dressed in Sioux regalia dancing a non-Indian dance while students chant "Chief!"

    Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

    by Meteor Blades on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 10:20:07 PM PST

    •  we should deport anyone who signs that shit (9+ / 0-)

      put them in a covered wagon and shove them back into the ocean

      America could have chosen to be the worlds doctor, or grocer. We choose instead to be her policeman. pity

      by cacamp on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 10:36:44 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  My son went to UI but he would have been the one (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Kitsap River

      He also studied Native American cultures while at UF and sang at pow wows with OA and FIHA.  He was email friends with some of the guys on the Yellow Hammer drum for many years.  Several great drum / singing teams come to Florida every year for the big Seminole pow-wow.  All of his RAVS work (Remote Area Veterinary Services) was done on the reservations in North Dakota (and he was very honored to be invited to a pow-wow one summer after he took care of several dogs and cats that belonged to one of their singers and they struck up a conversation about singing styles).  He's always interested in talking to just about anybody that sings or dances, whether it is northern culture or southern culture and he had a particular interest in the Ponca.  

      He never agreed with how the Chief was portrayed at UI and was one of the few students who didn't protest when they had to discontinue using the Chief.  He would have liked to have had a symbol that actually gave recognition to the cultures that lived in Illinois before the westward movement by settlers forced them south to reservations.  He always thought it was stupid that UI thought the "Illinois tribes" were "not as interesting as the Sioux" so they "borrowed" Sioux clothing and dance "styles" for their mascot.  But it's not all about fancy dancing, at all.  

      The NCAA has it right with UI, either work with the tribal culture that you purport to represent or stop faking it.  If you can't do it correctly, honorably and respectfully, what's the point?  

      The FSU Seminoles fared better, they actually work with the Seminole Tribe of Florida and have their permission to use Seminole as their emblem, but if I recall, they also had several issues to work out because of the ruling, before they were allowed to keep their symbols and mascot.  

      "Focusing your life solely on making a buck shows a certain poverty of ambition. It asks too little of yourself. Because it's only when you hitch your wagon to something larger than yourself that you realize your true potential." - Barack Obama

      by Ricochet67 on Wed Nov 14, 2012 at 10:11:22 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I AM a Seminole. The tribe did not... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        navajo, Ricochet67

        ...have a vote on the issue, but the tribal majority do, in fact, support the Osceola character at FSU. This came about after long talks regarding the noxious stereotypes used up until the '70s. There is a close relationship between the tribe and the university. Nonetheless, some members object to the use of "Osceola" as the FSU symbol, partly for historical reasons. But at least in the case of FSU, unlike other schools, university authorities and tribal leaders came to an agreement about what is and is not respectful and the NCAA gave them a waiver from its general prohibition of such symbols, nicknames and mascots. Personally, I still oppose the depiction.

        Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

        by Meteor Blades on Wed Nov 14, 2012 at 11:38:58 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Thanks, Meteor Blades (0+ / 0-)

          I think sometimes we forget when we read "The Seminole Tribe of Florida" in the newspaper, that it doesn't always mean all of the people, it probably means the leadership.  

          Too many Floridians think the Seminoles and Miccosukees  are all about air boats, casinos and alligator wrestling.  They don't know their own state's history at all and too many people lump all the Native people into one group - they can't tell the plains from the woodlands and all the subtle differences between the various native peoples.  Too many old westerns and stereotypes, for sure.  

          If nothing else, the NCAA matter brought some attention to the ignorance of schools, teams (and the public) who just randomly picked an "Indian" as their symbol or mascot without knowing anything about them.  

          If they can't show respect and educate their own students who were protesting the NCAA prohibition, then the schools need to adopt other kinds of mascots.  

          Had to go look it up, because I was curious about the colleges and their names - I know FSU was founded in 1851 (although its origins go back to the 1820s), football started in 1899, but they apparently didn't pick the name "Seminoles" until 1947.  UF, on the other hand, was founded in 1853, football started in 1906 and by 1912 they were calling themselves "Gators."  I wasn't sure why FSU waited so long to choose a name for their team and I don't know if, in 1947, they actually even talked to anybody affiliated with the Seminole Tribe in either Florida or Oklahoma back then.  

          But the timing for choosing the name was because originally, the FSU men were sent to Gainesville, when FSU became a woman's college called Florida State College around 1905 (originally they were both seminaries).  So the FSU team was part of the original Gators.  But when FSU opened up to men again after WWII and re-started their football team back in Tallahassee, that's when they picked the name "Seminoles."  

          I guess that's because Florida was pretty much famous for only a few things back then - alligators and the Seminoles (and beaches, hurricanes and palm trees).  So I learned something new today - at least about the history of our two oldest state colleges.  :)

          My folks moved to Miami in 1947 - I look at their old pictures and I see nothing but sand, sticker bushes, pine lands, mangroves, palm trees and swampy areas in the background whenever they took relatives around to see "the sights."  Back then Tamiami Trail was just finishing part of its construction on the Dade County end and Alligator Alley was 20 years in the future.  US 1 and US 27 were the only way to go north and get out of the state.  I look at those pictures and I look at it now and I think "what the hell have we done to this place?"  All the pretty places I remember walking in and exploring as a kid, are gone, paved over, dug up, built up.  The Everglades has almost been "managed" out of existence.  The Biscayne aquifer is drying up.  I never go to the beach.  

          We just don't show any respect for the land, the water,  the woods, or those that live in those places, any more.  

          "Focusing your life solely on making a buck shows a certain poverty of ambition. It asks too little of yourself. Because it's only when you hitch your wagon to something larger than yourself that you realize your true potential." - Barack Obama

          by Ricochet67 on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 08:00:03 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Half the state will be underwater in... (0+ / 0-)

            ...50-100 years. I guess that will make people pay a bit more attention to respecting their surroundings. Or maybe not.

            Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

            by Meteor Blades on Fri Nov 16, 2012 at 04:11:43 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

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