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View Diary: Who are the "Makers" and the "Takers"? (99 comments)

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  •  Necessary for economic activity (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    maybeeso in michigan, caul

    For their to be economic activity, there needs to be:
     Productive equipment
     Workers
     Consumers.

    We need to have each element. The rich guys point out that the first is necessary, and that they own the first. So they are necessary. the rest of us are just adjuncts. WRONG!

    1) While productive equipment is necessary, The title that they hold to it is a social convention.  Andy Carnegie got incredibly rich off the Bessemer converter. Bessemer made jut, but he didn't make out anywhere near as well.

    2) the other factors are just as necessary. If they went Galt, the situation would be close to Rockne's "Show them your press clippings."

    •  In a way, customers are the job creators. (7+ / 0-)

      A business without customers doesn't need workers.  

      To stimulate the economy, we need more consumers.  

      •  Need More Consumers ... (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        NoMoreLies, Dustin Mineau, caul

        ... with more money!

        The working class/middle class is long overdue, 30 years to be exact, for a substantial raise.  

        Over the last 30 years, the 1% have gone from taking 9% of the income pie to 20%.  All the income derived from worker productivity has gone to the 1% while the 99% begs for scraps.  This needs to end.

        Poor man wants to be rich. Rich man wants to king. And the king ain't satisifed until he rules everything. B.Springsteen

        by howd on Wed Nov 14, 2012 at 06:36:41 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  As I said above. (0+ / 0-)

        Customers are one of the legs of the economic tripod. They aren't the only one.

        (Right now, purchasing power is the currently weakest link.)

    •  Another example (7+ / 0-)

      I used to work at a Chevy dealership in the service dept, one day the sales manager came into the service dept and said "without him we would not have any jobs." I quickly responded "without this great service dept, he would not be selling any used cars and not many new ones." He did not like it, and stormed off.

      Guess I'm a taker, I take a paycheck every week!!

    •  Who buys the equipment? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Sparhawk

      Just asking?

      •  who makes the equipment? (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        caul, katiec

        Also just asking?

        Our Dime: Understanding the Federal Budget

        by Dustin Mineau on Wed Nov 14, 2012 at 06:36:57 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  A collaboration (0+ / 0-)

          between the providers of capital and the consumers of capital.

          •  and who made the original capital? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            caul

            Our Dime: Understanding the Federal Budget

            by Dustin Mineau on Wed Nov 14, 2012 at 07:07:32 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  You mean... (0+ / 0-)

              ...who made  Adam's apple?

              How far back do you want to go?

            •  question (0+ / 0-)

              Are you playing devil's advocate, or do you really want to engage in a chicken and egg discussion?

              These capitalists generally act harmoniously and in concert, to fleece the people... -Abraham Lincoln

              by HugoDog on Wed Nov 14, 2012 at 07:37:03 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  I think our friend Balto is approaching being (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                katiec, HugoDog

                anti worker. DLC Third Way type? The folks responsible for gutting the economy? Owners after the depression showed some sense of social responsibility compared to today. The depression scared them. And these attitudes are going to continue until they get a good scare again. No violence, that is unacceptable, but they need to be taught a lesson. A few good labor actions and strikes would be real helpful. Without workers the capitalists would be left to do the work. And we all know how much capitalists like to do real work, don't we? Let the managers and executives of big box stores deal with customers, stock shelves and stand on their feet all day. Let the coal mine owners go down into the mines and dig for coal. lets see papa john make pizzas 12 hours a day for minimum wage.

                It is bad enough I have to hear this crap on Facebook. People on this website should know better than to be antiworker.

                •  Whoa Nellie.... (0+ / 0-)

                  Not anti worker at all....we need both workers and providers of capital.

                  But I don't think there are any saints in this play.  On this site we tend to look at the world in black and white when we really operate in shades of grey.  

                  Are some managers idiots?  Of course.  Do providers of capital look out for their money first?  Of course.  Does labor occasionally overstep.  Of course.

                  Is there an imbalance right now between providers of capital and labor.  Yes.  Is it the fault of capital?  Not really, they just are doing what they are programmed to do.  That ain't going to change, and they can take their money elsewhere: witness Hostess - the debt providers decided not to play ball anymore.

                  Solutions: certainly more regulation on financial services, more education so workers can be competitive in a technologically complex and global environment.  Strikes - sure, bring attention to the situation, but don't hold your breath that they will work - sounds kind of 20th century....

      •  Money is made by the Fed. (0+ / 0-)

        The guy who buys the equipment has the money to buy the equipment by social convention.

        Equipment is necessary. Some medium of exchange is necessary. The identity of the people who have current title to the medium of exchange is an artifact of our social arrangement.

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