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  •  I lived under Paul VI's reign. (1+ / 0-)
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    And he STANK when it came to anything to do with women. He was very clear on banning birth control.  I think your idea of an extreme reactionary and mine are rather different. But then I left the church at age 20, attempted to return at age 25, and realized I couldn't  belong to a church which treated women as second class citizens and incubators on feet, was anti-sex and anti-gay and anti-contraception...all of which are PART of the social justice you state he was so good at.

    Sorry, don't buy it. I left the church in 1969 but kept tabs on what was going on since my parents were faithful Catholics and I was expected to attend Mass when I visited them.  I didn't come out as a Wiccan  until I was 35--and finally reached the point where I couldn't sit through yet another asinine sermon on abortion and birth control. I respected their faith, but they didn't respect mine, though they didn't force me to go to Mass any longer.

    The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

    by irishwitch on Wed Nov 14, 2012 at 09:25:18 PM PST

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    •  Yes, Paul VI was not progressive in birth control (0+ / 0-)

      but he did allow women religious great leeway in setting their own rules... he was not insistent on the traditional habits and semi cloister rules ...

      He also expanded roles for lay women in the Church ... yes, it was only baby steps but at least it was something ..
      Yes, he was insistent on the traditional views regarding birth control, but under his leadership, priests were allowed to counsel women that sometimes artificial birth control was alright (and with most young US priests that meant all circumstances)  

      At the time of Paul VI there were not these fixations that are now in the Church where everything is about sexual sins .... and he was not the reactionary who tried to end the reforms of Vatican II ... the problems is that Vatican II was not an end, but the beginning, and had someone more like Paul VI followed John paul I (or even JPI Had lived longer), women's voices would have been heard more and more changes would have come about and still be coming.   An institution that is 2000 years old doesn't change easily ...

      the actual regression began with John Paul II and the current occupant is even worse .. he is determined not only to turn back Vatican II , but the Reformation too

      Give your heart a real workout! Love your enemies!

      by moonbatlulu on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 03:19:27 PM PST

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