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View Diary: Why I'm Rejecting Rabbi Yoffie's Call for Progressive Jews to Support Israel's Bombing of Gaza (328 comments)

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  •  Very good comment (6+ / 0-)

    I know there are people on here that bring out my worst side and frankly push my buttons because they represent that dark side of prejudice and hate against Jewish people and use this conflict to spread their hatred.

    At the same time I see (with great dismay) there are those from my side that do the same thing just turned around and directed at Arabs and Muslims. It disgusts me. Yesterday we had one of those guys that simply polluted the discussion.

    AND I see that there are people that I strongly disagree with but who are good people with good intentions and solid commentary that should be discussed. And I agree with your last paragraph completely. But then again this is an open forum and I don't get to make those decisions.

    There has to be a way to break to the cycle of violence, but who is willing to first. Honestly, I am not. I feel that asking for Permanent Peace is NOT a bad thing and I think those that deny that are the ones that need to change.

    And hence we are stuck in the loop again.

    "'Touch it dude' - President Barack Obama"

    by volleyboy1 on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 04:34:59 PM PST

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    •  And I genuinely understand it. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      volleyboy1, corvo, Larsstephens, CwV

      I have friends in Israel who have been very personally hit, too. I also was lucky enough to befriend a young woman who had come here from would-be Palestine, a long time ago, who was really rather traditionally Muslim, and with whom I had amazingly productive discussions about her growing up, about feminism and Islam, about current states of extremism all around, about her fears as a child.

      It's a deep pain, all of it, and I can only wish I knew how to get to something that would stop it from worsening. I don't, I just do think that the relationship of the hardest lines on both ends, to each other -- that feeds the whole loop, while the everyday people live in fear and suffering.

      I have seen a growing antisemitism among some of my lefty friends here -- something I genuinely don't say lightly, at all -- and I despair at it hugely, because simultaneously, I have watched shit like the tone-deaf-as-hell (to put it kindly) anti-"Jihad" ads taken out on city buses feed the loop, too.

      I don't know where we go from here.

      •  Sigh... Thank you for acknowledging that side (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Spit, Larsstephens, CwV

        of the argument when you say this:

        I have seen a growing antisemitism among some of my lefty friends here -- something I genuinely don't say lightly, at all -- and I despair at it hugely,
        and I totally despair at the Islamophobia and bigotry against Arabs and Muslims that comes from my side. It disgusts me to see fellow Jews acting just like those they say hate us.

        I agree with this as well:

        It's a deep pain, all of it, and I can only wish I knew how to get to something that would stop it from worsening. I don't, I just do think that the relationship of the hardest lines on both ends, to each other -- that feeds the whole loop, while the everyday people live in fear and suffering.
        Well, I guess it starts with discussions like this that can sometimes lead to mutual trust and from that can grow negotiations that can withstand the hard liners on both sides.

        "'Touch it dude' - President Barack Obama"

        by volleyboy1 on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 04:47:35 PM PST

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        •  On the acknowledging things (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          volleyboy1, corvo, Larsstephens, CwV

          Seriously, I wish some of the lefty left -- understand, I'm a socialist with radical leftist thought in my blood, so I'm not using that as an epithet -- would really think harder and listen harder, because yes, I do see it, with the veil frankly kind of ever-thinning in some places and on some topics.

          I mean -- I could tell some local stories... just, wow. "Tone deaf" is kind.

          This is one of those discussions where I usually wind up pissed off at nearly everybody. I value people trying to listen to each other and think, even if conclusions aren't always the same. And that's getting harder and harder to find, sadly, though I think that it's still about the extreme points of view being loud more than common.

    •  And there were are. The poor agrieved Volley (0+ / 0-)

      isn't responsible for his behavior - it's those evil evil antisemites who push his buttons and make him do bad things.

      "the Agency continues to verify the non-diversion of declared material at these facilities and LOFs."

      by JesseCW on Fri Nov 16, 2012 at 11:20:05 AM PST

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