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View Diary: The Party of Patriotism and Secession? (60 comments)

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  •  let'em go (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rat racer, FloraLine, US Blues, roadbear

    if they are determined to behave like  third world countries. let them be third world countries or else unite in some sort of confederacy.  First I would suggest these secessionists compare the dollars they send to DC vs the dollars they receive from the feds  

    •  I've been meaning to write about this: (11+ / 0-)
      if they are determined to behave like  third world countries. let them be third world countries
      I'm not so sure that isn't the end game of the Kochs and other "captains of industry" in the U.S. - creating third world labor islands for manufacturing within the U.S.

      "Mitt who? That's an odd name. Like an oven mitt, you mean? Oh, yeah, I've got one of those. Used it at the Atlas Society BBQ last summer when I was flipping ribs."

      by Richard Cranium on Fri Nov 16, 2012 at 06:59:52 AM PST

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    •  Shouldn't dismiss it out of hand . . . (14+ / 0-)

      I would seriously consider letting states secede from the union.

      But not as a knee-jerk "F*** YOU" reaction.  Not because a small minority of the voting population says so.

      If the various states that don't like the "union" want to have statewide votes on whether to secede, and get, say, 3/5 vote on it . . .  and, on top of that, come up with a reasonable plan for compensating the Feds for any property they own in those states . . .  AND guarantee that they can cover a reasonable quality of life once all Federal funds are withdrawn . . . AND they come up with a mechanism for peaceful transition of power . . .

      THEN, I think we'd be silly to disallow it.  At that point the desire to not be part of the union becomes a consensus, a power that we could only defy through application of force.

      But until all of that happens, it's just whining.

      One of the big reasons people in Alabama signed that petition was "We face having to support an open-ended, undefined expense in the future due to Obamacare".

      Well, I face an open-ended, unidentified expense because of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, too.  And to be fair, I bitched about it.  But I didn't claim my state should secede because of it.

      I think a movement for secession might succeed, if framed in the "right" way for various Southern states.  But I don't see them taking the proper political, consensus-building steps to make that a reality.  I just see petulant wining because there's a dark-skinned person at the head of the Executive branch.

      •  irony is that most of the states wanting to (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        AnnieR, Caniac41, sfsteach, wasatch

        leave rely on US military bases to bolster their local and state economies.  Wonder if they would want the bases to stay?

      •  That's my problem with it (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Alexandra Lynch

        I can also, theoretically, at least, see a state seceding only if they have a big enough economy in and of themselves AND if it's geographically feasible.

        California and Texas are the only states that I could possibly see doing this.

        •  Cascadia (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          EthrDemon, entlord, lotlizard

          For years there's been a (mostly tongue in cheek, I think) movement to create a Republic of Cascadia in the Pacific Northwest through the secession and uniting of at least the coastal parts of British Columbia, Washington and Oregon, and depending on who you talk to possibly larger areas and parts of other states. If we were to just go with BC/WA/OR in whole, Cascadia would be about the size of Mongolia, with a population about the same as the Netherlands and an economy roughly comparing to those of Indonesia or Switzerland.

          I think Cascadia could make it on its own.

          Thing is, most of us out here know we've got a good thing in general, even on those days when we feel like we're being ignored by governments a couple thousand miles away in Ottawa or DC that don't "get" Western issues or concerns (the primary reason for secessionist movements in this part of the world).

          I'd be lying if I said I'd never thought we'd be better off on our own, especially during the depths of the Bush years. The future looks better than it has for a while right now, though.

          The thought that life could be better is woven indelibly into our hearts and our brains. – Paul Simon, "Train In The Distance."

          by Omir the Storyteller on Fri Nov 16, 2012 at 11:00:38 AM PST

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      •  except, of course, for that whole (0+ / 0-)

        "constitution" problem, which specifically doesn't allow states to secede. there would have to be an amendment, allowing them to.

    •  Let who go? The very small minority of (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ogre, sfsteach, Larsstephens, jan4insight

      citizens in Texas, Louisiana, NC, etc., who signed these petitions?

      Have the people of Louisiana asked to secede?  No.  The Tea Party minority has.  Even if this were a serious movement, would we let the people of New Orleans be taken out of the Union, no doubt against their will,  by the Tea Party?

      Texas will be blue in a few years, between the white progressives who live there, the growing Latino population, and the Native American and black vote.  If the secession thing were serious (which it is only as an measure of alienation among the far right), agreeing to it would be a complete abandoning of those Texans who are in every sense our people.

      --------------------- “These are troubling times. Corporation are treated like people. People are treated like things. …And if we ever needed to vote, we sure do need to vote now.” -- Rev. Dr. William J. Barber

      by Fiona West on Fri Nov 16, 2012 at 09:56:48 AM PST

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