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View Diary: Where We Stand (225 comments)

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  •  Well, one positive note (6+ / 0-)

    It looks at this point that we at least managed to avoid nuclear war.  There were enough examples of consequenses that we could see what would happen.  Now, something just has to make clear the consequenses on inaction on global warming.  Sandy was a good start.  If we see similar storms every couple of years that just might be what we need to get some attention to the problem.

    •  I'm afraid (6+ / 0-)

      some kind of nuclear conflict is the neo-cons wet dream. Unthinkable for rational people but desirable for them.

      Ceiling Cat rules....srsly.

      by side pocket on Fri Nov 16, 2012 at 10:33:42 AM PST

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    •  Oh. I'm quite confident we will be seeing storms (12+ / 0-)

      similar to and greater than Sandy more than once every couple of years. And in between there will be drought and famine. And fires. And tornadoes. They will interrupt business. They will kill businesses. They will interrupt recovery from the last storm. They will create refugees. They will cause refugees to move from one landing place to the next. They will escalate militarization for control of scarce resources. They will escalate struggles to manage and control refugee populations. They will injure and kill. Over and over in ever greater numbers.

      And it won't take long to see all this taking shape. 5-10 years. It will be the economic impact that will send the deniers into the shadows. We will slap stickers on their backs saying, "kick me, I was a denier".

      Ultimately, the survivors will all be forced to abandon the lives they cling to in the various forms of denial in which we all, not just conservatives, live.

      The only question is whether and to what degree anyone will anticipate these changes and prepare for and provide humane paths of existence through the end of growth and shopping to something not only sustainable but remotely livable, decent and hopeful.

      Purging predominantly minority voters and requiring them to present IDs to vote in the face of VIRTUALLY NON-EXISTENT VOTER FRAUD is RACISM! I hereby declare all consenting Republicans RACISTS until they stand up and object to these practices!

      by Words In Action on Fri Nov 16, 2012 at 10:50:52 AM PST

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    •  we have avoided nuclear war so far (6+ / 0-)

      because it has always been the worst possible option. There has always been a compromise that was more desirable to both parties than nuclear war.

      But in an era of resource scarcity, where there is no longer enough to go around, we may reach a point where nuclear war is no longer the worst possible option. That means that someone somewhere will elect to do it.

      Suppose you are a leader faced with the following choice:

      1) You can launch a nuclear strike on another country, greatly thinning out their population and thereby ensuring your people access to vital energy and resources with the press of a single button, without having to commit your soldiers to a bloody and arduous conventional war, or waste a lot of resources building a fleet of drones/planes/ships;

      2) Or you can refrain from making a nuclear strike, and watch your people starve and freeze.

      Which would you choose? And if you didn't choose option 1), how long do you think you would remain in power until your people deposed you and put someone in who WOULD go with option 1)?

      We have never been in that scenario before, but we could get there. Perhaps in thirty years or fifty or a hundred, but we could certainly get there, if we don't seek to become more sustainable now.

      "In America, the law is king." --Thomas Paine

      by limpidglass on Fri Nov 16, 2012 at 11:20:20 AM PST

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