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View Diary: I/P The never ending cycle of blood. (53 comments)

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  •  You mean "Israelis at present" (0+ / 0-)

    rather than forever.

    It's 'unthinkable' now but things have a way of changing.  The country is so small that there is an inevitability in the long run.

    •  No, I don't (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      puzzled, PrahaPartizan, FG

      I mean forever. Do you think women would voluntarily give up abortion rights in the US? Unthinkable? Could that change?

      The status quo  doesn't work, there is no question about that. But there is either Israel with Jewish autonomy or there is no Israel. Israelis have to face that. The only choices are to find a path to peace, endless war, or the end of Israel. For the moment, both the Palestinians and the Israelis seem content with endless war, but for Israel, that is a dead end game. The burden is theirs.

      •  That's too easy (0+ / 0-)

        and the usual denial doubling down on a binary absolutism.

        Judaism is significantly redefinable and modernizable.  Palestinians are historically religiously mixed, though in the past 60-70 years there's been a selection/purging for Islam and Islamism.

        Both sides appear to have locked in on really reactionary and exclusive forms of their religions and ethnicity/culture in the course of this conflict- but that doesn't make these forms the truth of what they really are as peoples in history.

        During WW2 and the Cold War the world had armies battle and millions die in the name of national ideologies that were reactionary and infused with insanity and highly based in in distorted readings of their peoples' histories.  These were temporarily believed by their peoples for instrumental purposes- to justify their aggressive revanchisms and violent addressing and settling of older tribal scores.  When these scores and some territorial issues were considered settled these ideologies quickly disintegrated among average people.

        If a Jewish state is the acceptable//desirable goal, the thing to do is make it possible for Palestinians to become acceptably Jewish- convert in significant numbers.  And to make mainstream Israeli Judaism significantly more competitive aka compatible with the Modern world in peacetime.  There is no long term victory in the 'battle of the cradles' or in trying to create a separate but (sorta) equal condition, be that as two states or two nonintegrable societies that will thus be condemned to constant efforts to dominate each other.

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