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  •  no we don't have the right to discipline our child (5+ / 0-)

    ren how we please...my God. Please, think about what you are saying.  Read about child abuse and how rampant it is in tough economic times and how frightened children are to report it.
    Your comment broke my heart.

    "Anything you do in life will be insignificant but it is important that you do it anyway. " Ghandi

    by JillS on Sun Nov 18, 2012 at 07:35:07 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Try reading the statistics for kids (1+ / 1-)
      Recommended by:
      CherryTheTart
      Hidden by:
      Cinnamon

      growing up in state care.  While we're trying to crush the radical right, we have to be sure to keep this radical left in check as well.  Government over reach into our parenting lives, is wrong.  What's more amazing is most of the people with such harsh criticisms don't even have children.  You're the last people who should be making parenting decisions.  Mind your own business and go play with your dog.

      •  You. Are. Wrong. You must be reading stats for (5+ / 0-)

        another planet.  We are our brothers keeper.

        "Anything you do in life will be insignificant but it is important that you do it anyway. " Ghandi

        by JillS on Sun Nov 18, 2012 at 07:56:08 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I know you don't want to bring the bible into this (1+ / 2-)
          Recommended by:
          CherryTheTart
          Hidden by:
          Cinnamon, historys mysteries

          as it clearly states, do not spare the rod.  It also says that to not disciple your children, is to not love your children.  Simply put, because you cripple your kids for life when they have no respect of authority and no understanding of the consequences of their actions.  

          Disagree if you like but the law is still on the side of parents. Thank God!  And I will fight as vigorously as I did for Obama to keep you extremist liberals from taking a foot hold in America with these overreaching policies, just like the extremist conservatives and their equally, unconstitutional and overreaching policies.

          •  asdf... (10+ / 0-)
            keep you extremist liberals from taking a foot hold in America
            ???

            "Throwing a knuckleball for a strike is like throwing a butterfly with hiccups across the street into your neighbor's mailbox." -- Willie Stargell

            by Yasuragi on Sun Nov 18, 2012 at 08:12:37 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  HR'd for dickishness (5+ / 0-)

            And, for the record, I have a kid with ODD among other diagnoses as part of her syndrome. I do believe in spanking, on rare occasions. That is NOT the same as publicly slapping the child's face. The situation described in this diary IS child abuse, and it is up to the authorities to determine if it is an isolated incident, or the diarist just witnessed the tip of the ice burg... THAT is respecting authority: letting those in authority do their jobs, instead of the diarist running in and beating that abuser to "teach him a lesson".

            Children can be taught to respect authority by example, not just punishment and fear.

            Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. ~ Yoda Political Compass: -8.50, -6.46

            by Cinnamon on Sun Nov 18, 2012 at 08:48:46 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  You are right Cinnamon (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Cinnamon, CuriousBoston

              What is HR'd?

              "Anything you do in life will be insignificant but it is important that you do it anyway. " Ghandi

              by JillS on Sun Nov 18, 2012 at 09:05:18 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Hide Rated - that this comment shouldn't be seen (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Eileen B, CuriousBoston

                Trusted users are able to Hide Rate and recommend comments and diaries. If several people HR a comment it will be hidden from the comment stream to non-TU's. It also affects the mojo of the person who made it, if they earn a LOT of HR's.

                If any user earns so many HR's, across many comments and diaries, the system itself will automatically ban them. Of course, they can also be banned administratively if their comments warrant it, before all their mojo is even gone.

                Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. ~ Yoda Political Compass: -8.50, -6.46

                by Cinnamon on Sun Nov 18, 2012 at 09:11:47 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  PS - click on any user name (0+ / 0-)

                including your own, and you can see the day they joined, the User ID number (literally, which number in line you were signing up for your own account),  Mojo, TU, subscrition, and beta tester statuses, day they joined, and access their history of comments, diaries, ratings, etc.

                Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. ~ Yoda Political Compass: -8.50, -6.46

                by Cinnamon on Sun Nov 18, 2012 at 09:20:24 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

            •  Oh I agree there are other ways... (1+ / 1-)
              Recommended by:
              CherryTheTart
              Hidden by:
              Cinnamon

              dosen't change a parents right to discipline their children according to their wishes and within the confines of the law.  A slap is no more child abuse than Benghazi is a scandal.  

              •  Again, you are spreading false information (4+ / 0-)

                A slap can be child abuse - especially depending on the strength of the adult and the size of the child. A single hard slap could cause brain damage or death in a very small child.

                Shaking a baby can kill them, and is considered child abuse.

                Please stop spreading false information. It doesn't further the discussion here, and it's not like you are fighting this one "on the side of the better angels of human nature"... if anything, your comments, taken collectively, support vindication for parents who cross the line.

                Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. ~ Yoda Political Compass: -8.50, -6.46

                by Cinnamon on Sun Nov 18, 2012 at 09:39:38 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

            •  HR'd for bitchiness (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              CherryTheTart

              It's only your opinion a slap is child abuse but your opinion is in contradiction to the law.  Now stop spreading false information.

              •  I was quoting the DBAD rule (3+ / 0-)

                set down by Kos. You, however have resorted to misogyny, direct insult, and personal retaliation, NEW USER. I suggest you go familiarize yourself with the FAQ's of the site.

                As per the normal rules of HR's, since you have directly attacked me, I will leave it up to other users to decide whether or not you deserve more donuts.

                Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. ~ Yoda Political Compass: -8.50, -6.46

                by Cinnamon on Sun Nov 18, 2012 at 09:43:54 AM PST

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              •  Your Comments Have Reached A Trollish Level (4+ / 0-)

                now and have nothing to do with the diary.

                The Republican Party is Simply a Coalition of Greed and Hate

                by kerplunk on Sun Nov 18, 2012 at 09:47:54 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  When do you think Noobie will discover (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  irishwitch, CuriousBoston

                  he has no HR powers?

                  This must be a totally new species of Troll from anything I've ever seen before, kinda disturbing, the implications.

                  Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. ~ Yoda Political Compass: -8.50, -6.46

                  by Cinnamon on Sun Nov 18, 2012 at 09:57:18 AM PST

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                  •  does the House of Lights group have its own set (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Cinnamon, CuriousBoston

                    of trolls?  Kind of disturbing, if so.

                    I'm not going to HR since I'm the author of this diary.  I understand why there is dissent, this is a touchy
                    subject

                    •  Sadly, we have. (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      irishwitch, CuriousBoston

                      Most infamous troll of all in recent times targeted a user who was high-profile in her support of the Sandusky victims, and was one of the founders of TREE Climbers. Tried to get her to GBCW, and there was a huge meta drama over it all.

                      Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. ~ Yoda Political Compass: -8.50, -6.46

                      by Cinnamon on Sun Nov 18, 2012 at 10:14:00 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Oh, I was eating popcorn through all that (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Cinnamon

                        that's why I asked about this one.  First diary on the reclist, and it was one of those annoying "You see, Timmy..." diaries that I hate so much.

                        •  I HR comments (2+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          irishwitch, CuriousBoston

                          I've had some diaries where a user has left both comments that I Rec'd and  comments I HR'd, in the same diary. Until someone is proven to be a Troll, and/or declared HOS by a history of commenting.  The false facts advocated in this exchange though are disturbing, for the obvious implications. Like has been said in the guidelines, "anyone can have a bad day", but this stance over child abuse is... scary. To say the least.

                          I'm really glad you paid attention to that instinct and followed up with actions, BTW. My child was hit in the face and given a bloody nose by a 1-1 aide in school when she was in 1st grade, but the aide did it in the dog-leg bend of the building, where no classroom windows looked out and nobody could see her... the only person who told me was my child, and not for about 3 months, after I pulled her out of that school. I knew something was wrong, but I couldnt prove it.... talk about the tip of the iceberg. She had language disabilities and wasn't able to speak up for herself and express what happened. And, btw.. if anyone saw her and judged her age by size? My kid wore 9 year old size clothes when she was only 6. She's 11 now, and 5'5 and growing, but maturity-wise she's still only about 8 (or 9 on a good day) - she just wrote her Letter to Santa to take to the Thanksgiving parade.  As a mom, I'm glad you tried to do something... I'd pray that some kind stranger would speak up for my child when I wasn't around.

                          Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. ~ Yoda Political Compass: -8.50, -6.46

                          by Cinnamon on Sun Nov 18, 2012 at 10:52:16 AM PST

                          [ Parent ]

              •  If an adult slapped another adult (3+ / 0-)

                it would be assault or battery, depending on the state. If the adult slapped is a spouse, it's considered domestic violence. You can be arrested and charged for this.

                My father never slapped or spanked me as a child. AT the age of 14, I lost my husband and my maternal grandmother.  My mother and I turned to each other for comfort, and I moved to FL with them.  The day we were unpacking  as the movers brought in the furniture,  myu father demanded that I tell the movers where to put the furniture in my room. Since MY furniture was in storage, I really didn't care, and said so, using the F Bomb.  Dad slapped me.

                I told him then and there that if he ever slapped me again, I would call 9-1-1 and have him arrested for assault, and I didn't care if that meant I would be homeless.  He apologized profusely, He also never did it again.

                I have to wonder if that grandfather slapped a kid in public, what would he do in private?

                The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

                by irishwitch on Sun Nov 18, 2012 at 11:23:02 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  FYI, I used the F Bomb because (3+ / 0-)

                  Dad first opened up on me when I was taking a much-erned break from unpacking his kitchen stuff. I'd covered the entire coutner surface on both sides of the kitchen, had loaded and unloaded the dishwasher twice, and there was no more room to put stuff until I was able to put that dishwasher load away and reload. It was also August in FL and we couldn't put the air conditioner on because of the movers. I was worn out, sweaty and taking my first break of the afternoon. He told me to stop sitting on my ass and get to work. ANd tell the mover where to put the furniture. I think I wasn't so much rude as exhausted and fed up with being criticized.

                  The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

                  by irishwitch on Sun Nov 18, 2012 at 01:57:31 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

          •  It also says not to mistreat those same children. (4+ / 0-)

            [KJV] Colossians 3:21
            Fathers, provoke not your children to anger, lest they be discouraged.

            Showing a child when they've done wrong, even through a light smack to the rear, is one thing. A hard response that makes them afraid to make any decisions at all in the future because they might unknowingly be punishment-worthy is another thing entirely.

            The potential price of believing something not yet known to be against the rules to be within the rules must not be so high that a child will never try anything he or she has never done before.

            Authoritative parenting and authoritarian parenting are two different things. And learned helplessness is a horrible thing to be given by your parents.

            Prayers and best wishes to those in Japan.

            by Cassandra Waites on Sun Nov 18, 2012 at 12:25:35 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  HR'd for DBAD rule (3+ / 0-)
        What's more amazing is most of the people with such harsh criticisms don't even have children.  You're the last people who should be making parenting decisions.  Mind your own business and go play with your dog.
        Especially when you are talking about several Kossack's  sharing their stories of abuse. I suggest you go look up what the group House of Lights is all about, new user.

        Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. ~ Yoda Political Compass: -8.50, -6.46

        by Cinnamon on Sun Nov 18, 2012 at 09:48:30 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I suggest you get off your high horse Miss... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          CherryTheTart

          "I paid to be on a free site." LOL!   I'll leave ya'll to it and let this ridiculous conversation drop off the face of DailyKos, into obscurity where it belongs.  I know there aren't enough thinkers like you to matter so the up hill battle is on you.  And I will be at the top of that hill ready and waiting.

      •  Radical left? It is radical left to be concerned (0+ / 0-)

        about a child that got slapped in the face?  

        2012-2016 President Obama, Vice President Biden, Senator Warren. For a LIFETIME, federal judges. Get the filibuster changed. Steamroll. http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/submit-questions-and-comments

        by CuriousBoston on Sun Nov 18, 2012 at 03:30:10 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Hitting a child is not against the law so (1+ / 1-)
      Recommended by:
      CherryTheTart
      Hidden by:
      Cinnamon

      we absolutely have that right.  You may not like it but who cares what you think.  You raise your kids the way you want and the rest of FREE Americans will raise our kids the way we like.  

      •  Depending on how you hit a child, it is most (5+ / 0-)

        certainly against the law.  You are wrong again.  

        "Anything you do in life will be insignificant but it is important that you do it anyway. " Ghandi

        by JillS on Sun Nov 18, 2012 at 07:57:51 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  HR'd for false information (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Eileen B, CuriousBoston

        And I'll quote the exact point from FAQ's on dropping this HR, since it is used so infrequently, but this is such a clear-cut case of why it should be applied:

        Do not troll rate people for expressing a contrary opinion, so long as it is expressed in a civilized fashion. The exceptions are for conservative talking points or debunked or false information; this isn't a site for conservatives, they have entire swaths of the internet in which they can regale each other with their reality-impaired fantasies.
        I also disagree with you, but NO it is NOT an "absolute right" for parents to hit a child.

        Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. ~ Yoda Political Compass: -8.50, -6.46

        by Cinnamon on Sun Nov 18, 2012 at 08:53:28 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  If you have to misquote me to make your point... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          CherryTheTart

          your point is obviously not that strong, thus invalid.  And seeing as the majority of DailyKos ignored this Diary, I think it speaks to my thinking being in the majority, aside from have the rule of law.  

          •  I did not quote you at all (0+ / 0-)

            I quoted the section in FAQ's about HRing false information. And THIS EXACT quote from you is false information:

            Hitting a child is not against the law so (0+ / 1-)

            we absolutely have that right.

            However, the remainder of that same comment, in it's entirety, is also a violation of the DBAD Rule, so anyone could also lay a donut on it for that:
            You may not like it but who cares what you think.  You raise your kids the way you want and the rest of FREE Americans will raise our kids the way we like.  

            Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. ~ Yoda Political Compass: -8.50, -6.46

            by Cinnamon on Sun Nov 18, 2012 at 09:52:32 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  a smack in the face might not be acceptable to (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      CherryTheTart

      many but it is within parental rights.  It's not abuse/

      •  not always. where are you getting your info? n/t (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Cinnamon

        "Anything you do in life will be insignificant but it is important that you do it anyway. " Ghandi

        by JillS on Sun Nov 18, 2012 at 07:59:52 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  friends in social services. All I see is the word (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          CherryTheTart

          'slap' in the title.  That doesn't indicate abuse.  

          •  I was "slapped" unconscious. Is that legal? n/t (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Cinnamon, CuriousBoston

            I woke up and it was dark out.  It had been light out when I saw the hand swinging toward my face.  
            I guess since it is legal, it is okay tho, right?

            "Anything you do in life will be insignificant but it is important that you do it anyway. " Ghandi

            by JillS on Sun Nov 18, 2012 at 08:08:44 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  that's one of the most hyperbolic responses I have (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              CherryTheTart

              ever seen.  Also a mischaracterization of what I said worthy of the likes of John McCain.

              I'm referring to the title.  Was this kid unconscious?  Certainly doesn't sound like it.  As in: no.

              •  No, it wasn't hyperbolic (0+ / 0-)

                it was a real life story of another user in which case the slap was abusive.

                When a weaker human being is physically slapped by a stronger one, it very much can be abusive, it is POSSIBLE that it is abuse, but we all agree the circumstances determine if it was or wasn't.

                A 50-pound child slapping their larger, stronger parent during a temper tantrum is not considered abuse. A mother slapping her 17 year old's face for cursing at her, not so much either. How about a man slapping a woman's face? both adults?... different scenario. Would your friend in social services characterize that as a sign of abuse? OR Would they counsel the woman, "Hey, no biggie, go ahead and stay in the relationship, you probably deserved it?'

                Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. ~ Yoda Political Compass: -8.50, -6.46

                by Cinnamon on Sun Nov 18, 2012 at 10:25:55 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  while I am truly sorry that another member of DKos (0+ / 0-)

                  had to endure such treatment--it really has zero to do with my post.  

                  Your hypotheticals aren't providing any insight to a diary which mentions nothing else than a grandfather slapped a kid, then the diarists' own musings on the situation.

                  •  JillS is the one you should apologize to (3+ / 0-)

                    My hypotheticals were not intended to provide insight into the incident, since I was not a first-hand witness.  They were intended to illustrate that context is important for understanding whether or not an individual instance of a slap was abusive. I concede the point that not all slaps are abusive, but the opposite is also true: not all slaps aren't abusive. SOME are. It depends on who's doing the slapping, who's receiving it, the strength, speed, and force of the blow, and the circumstances surrounding it.

                    And also, in this circumstances, the question arises if that person had authority and permission to begin with. He was characterized as NOT a parent, and no parent being around to give consent for this. That alone is questionable, and when it comes to suspected child abuse, the right thing to do in questionable circumstances is to report the incident.

                    Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. ~ Yoda Political Compass: -8.50, -6.46

                    by Cinnamon on Sun Nov 18, 2012 at 01:57:35 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Not an apology. I expressed sympathy but I don't (0+ / 0-)

                      retract my comment.  Sure, a slap COULD be a sign of abuse--anything COULD--but I see nothing in the diary that supports it.  I believe in the presumption of innocence, not guilt.  This diary does nothing to demonstrate that I have erred in that presumption.

            •  That is not "a" slap. (0+ / 0-)

              A slap is not child abuse by definition.

              I used to be Snow White. And then I drifted. - Mae West

              by CherryTheTart on Sun Nov 18, 2012 at 12:51:57 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

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