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View Diary: Israel commits Mass Murder and Obama Silent again (145 comments)

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  •  How can one take an objective position on this? (6+ / 0-)

    One side starts a fire and the other throws gasoline on it. And this has been going on for how long??????

    This is where the UN is supposed to step in, no? We need to find a way to have countries be subject to binding arbitration. Just saying..........

    Only the weak & defeated are called to account for their crimes.

    by rreabold on Sun Nov 18, 2012 at 10:11:02 AM PST

    •  One is also an oppressor. Like the Americans (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bsmechanic, allenjo, corvo, ZhenRen, Cedwyn

      with Native Americans.  When they fight back, they're the terrorists.   The Indian Wars went on officially for decades and unofficially for centuries.

      "The Global War on Terror is a justification for U.S. Imperialism. It must be stopped."

      by BigAlinWashSt on Sun Nov 18, 2012 at 11:49:27 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  attacks on civilians to further a cause is by (2+ / 0-)

        definition terrorism.

        Attacking a tank isn't terrorism.  Suicide bombings in supermarkets or hotel lobbies is.  

        (yes I know there haven't been these types of attacks in this most recent exchange, although Hamas has, I believe, suggested that it may be green-lighted)

        Badly-aimed random rocket fire against an opponent with no military filter is just really, really stupid.

    •  The UN is useless here (0+ / 0-)

      For a number of reasons:

      • I am a Zionist. For a long time the UN considered me to be a racist because I believe there should be a sovereign Jewish state in the Land of Israel. Why would I trust a body with my interests, with my borders, when I know they think i am a racist?
        • I know that it was taken off the books, but that was only done when Israel said it would not sign a particular agreement without that change
        • Whenever the UN convened a conference ostensibly about racism in the world, who gets all the attention? Israel. I am not saying that Israel does not have any racist policies - it does, no question - but I question the obsession the UN seems to have with Israel
      • The UN sucked at running the demilitarized zone between Israel and Lebanon. Peacekeeping troops were either unable or unwilling to stop Hezbollah from firing on israeli targets from this area. Why trust them to step in now?
      • That having been said, someone needs to step in and be the adults - someone who Israel trusts or at least can talk to. The United States combined with other countries, or perhaps NATO (once Turkey is added) is the answer.

      If you believe that ALL criticism of Israel is antisemitic, you're an idiot.
      If you believe that NONE of the criticism of Israel is antisemitic, you're a fool.
      If you call EVERYONE who criticizes Israel antisemitic, you're just an a$$hole

      by A Gutin Daf on Sun Nov 18, 2012 at 01:09:59 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Because (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Cedwyn

        racists dont make good neighbors.  A clue?

        And Israel rejects UN forces on their territory, annexed, disuted but claimed, or otherwise.

        •  So you agree with the UN (0+ / 0-)

          That Zionism = racism?

          If so there is probably not going to be much we can discuss in a fully civil manner about the present conflict without first getting into that.

          As for trusting the UN - if the UN used proportional representation in the Genral Assebbly (like our House of Representatives) it would be one thing. Instead, it is like the Senate; in the GA every country has the same vote. There are a large number of states with small populations that have managed to dominate the conversation in the UN as regards to Israel; why trust your citizens' safety to a group that always seems slanted against you?

          If push came to shove, I am pretty certain Israel would accept NATO troops as peacekeepers but would not welcome the blue helmets. Palestinians might accept NATO troops if Turkey were in the mix (they are not necessarily big fans of the UN themselves AFAIK)

          If you believe that ALL criticism of Israel is antisemitic, you're an idiot.
          If you believe that NONE of the criticism of Israel is antisemitic, you're a fool.
          If you call EVERYONE who criticizes Israel antisemitic, you're just an a$$hole

          by A Gutin Daf on Sun Nov 18, 2012 at 03:31:48 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I know (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            corvo

            So many votes in UN with only US, Palau, Israel and sometimes  American Samoa, against the world.  

            •  I am confused (0+ / 0-)

              are you agreeing with me, disagreeing with me, or being snarky?

              Did I misread your comment about racists? I thought you were referring to Israelis as racist.

              If I am misreading you i apologize.

              If you believe that ALL criticism of Israel is antisemitic, you're an idiot.
              If you believe that NONE of the criticism of Israel is antisemitic, you're a fool.
              If you call EVERYONE who criticizes Israel antisemitic, you're just an a$$hole

              by A Gutin Daf on Sun Nov 18, 2012 at 05:17:02 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  the zionist movement has evolved, yes (0+ / 0-)

                but there can be no doubt its philosophy was rooted in racism. theodor hertzl viewed arabs as little more than animals and pretended the holy land was a place without a people, as though no one lived there.  which, arabs being animals and all, i suppose no "people" did.

                Please don't dominate the rap, Jack, if you got nothin' new to say - Grateful Dead

                by Cedwyn on Mon Nov 19, 2012 at 06:11:19 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Was Herzl significantly different (0+ / 0-)

                  from other Europeans of his day on these matters?

                  Also, just because the person who came up with parts of the ideology may have been racist does not mean that the ideology itself was automatically rooted in racism.

                  I would be interested in any sources you would share in making this argument.

                  If you believe that ALL criticism of Israel is antisemitic, you're an idiot.
                  If you believe that NONE of the criticism of Israel is antisemitic, you're a fool.
                  If you call EVERYONE who criticizes Israel antisemitic, you're just an a$$hole

                  by A Gutin Daf on Mon Nov 19, 2012 at 11:56:42 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  read the collected works of hertzl (0+ / 0-)

                    there are heaps of his letters out there to be read.  lots of info on stern gang and irgun, too.

                    Please don't dominate the rap, Jack, if you got nothin' new to say - Grateful Dead

                    by Cedwyn on Mon Nov 19, 2012 at 02:12:12 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  OK, please recommend one (0+ / 0-)

                      Searching through heaps is not something I can do right now. I assume you have read them so would be able to point me to a text that demonstrates how the philosophy of Zionism (which Herzl provided in part, but not in whole) was rooted in racism.

                      Thanks.

                      If you believe that ALL criticism of Israel is antisemitic, you're an idiot.
                      If you believe that NONE of the criticism of Israel is antisemitic, you're a fool.
                      If you call EVERYONE who criticizes Israel antisemitic, you're just an a$$hole

                      by A Gutin Daf on Mon Nov 19, 2012 at 02:53:03 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

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