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View Diary: Gaza Death toll tops 110 as Israel hits targets in densly packed residential areas killing civilians (201 comments)

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  •  Disregard like leveling dense Beruit neighbood (20+ / 0-)

    of high rise apartment blocks, and litering the countryside with cluster bombs.

    For MUCH MUCH more I'll refer you to the United Nations Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza Conflict, which I'm sure you'll attempt to dismiss.

    “The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” ~ John Kenneth Galbraith

    by Lefty Coaster on Mon Nov 19, 2012 at 05:44:52 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  First things they did in Cast Lead (5+ / 0-)

      were public infrastructure hits.

    •  You mean the report (4+ / 0-)

      that the primary author, Goldstone, retracted sections of after it was published? He specifically retracted the section on how Israel deals with civilians.

      If you believe that ALL criticism of Israel is antisemitic, you're an idiot.
      If you believe that NONE of the criticism of Israel is antisemitic, you're a fool.
      If you call EVERYONE who criticizes Israel antisemitic, you're just an a$$hole

      by A Gutin Daf on Mon Nov 19, 2012 at 06:16:44 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Shocking the rest of the pannelists (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        poco, ask, lyvwyr101, Friendlystranger

        His recantation isn't convincing.

        “The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” ~ John Kenneth Galbraith

        by Lefty Coaster on Mon Nov 19, 2012 at 06:27:17 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  You mean (4+ / 0-)

        he back-stabbed the three other members of the commission by unilaterally publishing an op-ed in WaPo?

        UN Gaza report co-authors round on Goldstone

        Three members of the UN fact-finding mission on the Gaza war of 2008-09 have turned on the fourth member and chair of the group, Richard Goldstone, accusing him in all but name of misrepresenting facts in order to cast doubt on the credibility of their joint report.

        In a statement to the Guardian, the three experts in international law are strongly critical of Goldstone's dramatic change of heart expressed in a Washington Post commentary earlier this month. Goldstone wrote that he regretted aspects of the report that bears his name, especially the suggestion that Israel had potentially committed war crimes by targeting civilian Palestinians in the three-week conflict.

        The three members – the Pakistani human rights lawyer Hina Jilani; Christine Chinkin, professor of international law at the London School of Economics; and former Irish peace-keeper Desmond Travers – have until this moment kept their silence over Goldstone's bombshell remarks. But their response now is devastating.
        [...]

        Paranoia strikes deep. Into your life it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid. You step out of line, the man come and take you away. - S. Stills

        by ask on Mon Nov 19, 2012 at 06:37:51 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  I assume you are talking about 2006 (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Jersey Jon

      The facts about why Israel targeted some of the buildings in Beirut  are still unknown. Much of the destruction in Beirut was in neighborhoods where Hezbollah kept all their stuff. It's all on the Wikipedia page about the conflict.

      As for cluster bombs, I had to look them up. Those are nasty, and the IDF is wrong to use them. The world itself is split on whether they are useful during a conflict, though, since the Convention on Cluster Munitionsis missing a lot of countries that surprise me (including our own). It looks like Israel's leftover bombs have killed 200 more people in the past five years, and I understand there are areas that will not be inhabited until they are clear.

      Any army operating in a war zone is going to cause civilian casualties by their actions unless the other side is polite enough to meet them in the middle of nowhere. Unfortunately, Hezbollah in the past and Hamas (and others today) just are not polite enough to shoot their rockets from empty fields, store their equipment in industriam warehouses, and plan their operations from non residential office parks.

      Israel is not the only army in the world dealing with urban warfare and militants who use residential neighborhoods for their operations. To assert the "disregard" above you would have to show that Israel is choosing tactics without regard for how bad those tactics will be for civilians. My assertion is that that there are much more effective tactics than the ones the IDF chooses but that those tactics entail a much greater death toll.

      If you believe that ALL criticism of Israel is antisemitic, you're an idiot.
      If you believe that NONE of the criticism of Israel is antisemitic, you're a fool.
      If you call EVERYONE who criticizes Israel antisemitic, you're just an a$$hole

      by A Gutin Daf on Mon Nov 19, 2012 at 06:57:28 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Since you don't remember these events it was easy (0+ / 0-)

        for you to get them wrong. Your apologia was a poor one.

        I'm sure you'll keep working on it though.

        “The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” ~ John Kenneth Galbraith

        by Lefty Coaster on Mon Nov 19, 2012 at 07:53:41 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Please tell me what I am getting wrong (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          JNEREBEL, erush1345

          with links to unbiased sources, and I'd be happy to correct my statements based on available facts.

          If you believe that ALL criticism of Israel is antisemitic, you're an idiot.
          If you believe that NONE of the criticism of Israel is antisemitic, you're a fool.
          If you call EVERYONE who criticizes Israel antisemitic, you're just an a$$hole

          by A Gutin Daf on Mon Nov 19, 2012 at 08:01:49 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Pleeeeeze! wiki is far from an unbiased source (0+ / 0-)

            on this topic. Having been heavily vandalized by partisans.

            “The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” ~ John Kenneth Galbraith

            by Lefty Coaster on Mon Nov 19, 2012 at 08:32:58 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  OK... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              erush1345

              Based on how rigorously Wikipedia editors police their pages I am not sure how you can say that, but you still fail to link to factual accounts that dispute what I have said, instead trying to make distractions with these remarks.

              Back to the question - how am I wrong on the facts? How am I wrong in my analysis? Can you back this up with sources that are at least agenda-free if not unbiased?

              Thanks.

              If you believe that ALL criticism of Israel is antisemitic, you're an idiot.
              If you believe that NONE of the criticism of Israel is antisemitic, you're a fool.
              If you call EVERYONE who criticizes Israel antisemitic, you're just an a$$hole

              by A Gutin Daf on Mon Nov 19, 2012 at 10:30:31 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

    •  A Gutin Daf is right. We are not seeing (3+ / 0-)

      egregious beheadings and mass graves.  As bad as it is, it could be much worse if the goal were simply death dealing.

       Not saying people like Gilad Sharon don't want to get there, because at least he does, but so far not yet.

    •  The author of that report admitted it was biased (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JNEREBEL, erush1345, Jersey Jon

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