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View Diary: Gaza Death toll tops 110 as Israel hits targets in densly packed residential areas killing civilians (201 comments)

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  •  Martha--Hamas does have a very clear history (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    erush1345, Jersey Jon, JNEREBEL

    of targeting civilians for the purpose of targeting civilians.  While the suicide bombings have been lessened recently, it is certainly part and parcel of Hamas and IJ's recent tactics.  

    The rockets aren't particularly effective, but they are aimed towards civilian areas.  They're not aiming for a tank with these things--they're aiming for residential centres to scare (and maybe hit) people.

    •  I'm not denying that. (6+ / 0-)

      But there's two things:

      1. charliehall2 says, in the same comment, that Hamas targets civilians but can't target well.  So, which is it?

      2. If the targeting of civilians is what constitutes a war crime, which I'm actually in agreement with, then Israel is committing war crimes as well.  And yes, I am saying here that both sides do it, because charliehall2 (not you), across diaries, consistently acts as if Hamas is evil incarnate and Israel is an innocent victim.  I think the reality is a lot more complex. In fact, if that's the war crime, Israel is a lot more guilty, which is not a statement in any way meant to diminish Hamas' guilt.

      •  Well, he has (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        PeterHug, erush1345, lyvwyr101

        a much fiercer pro-I bias than I do, so usually I don't jump into those frays.  I"ll leave it to him to comment on what he has to say, if he wants to.  I don't assume you and he are going to reach any sort of agreement, so it's probably not worth the effort.

        As for war crimes, I'm not even sure if a terrorist attack is considered a 'war crime' is it?  Since it's not exactly part of a war.  I do consider direct targets on civilians--if that is the intent, to be criminal. I don't consider a Hamas attack on a tank, for example, to be criminal--but I do consider things like suicide bombings to be.

        As for the Israelis--I honestly believe that--as with the U.S. in Iraq, or the U.S. drones in Pakistan, the intent is not to target civilians--but because the responses are so immeasurably huge, civilians do die.  I  don't see this as a war-crime so much as extremely heavy-handed response--so perhaps unjust in the manner of the scale of warfare.  I mean--if someone from the next town throws a rock at you, do you drop a ton of bricks on them?   Israel thinks yes.  The UN thinks no.  I do think that, while the deaths of 110+ Palestinians in this particular event is awful, the targeting capabilities of the Israelis have prevented those deaths from reaching thousands.  

        So the 'war crime' thing is something I don't agree with.  Some have referenced the 'white phosphorous' use in 2008--and to be honest I'm not familiar enough with the details of these reports to know where those fit in.

        Anyway I'm off to sleep--

        •  I'm off to sleep in a moment as well, (6+ / 0-)

          but I will say this, and I think you'll agree with me, Palestinian civilians are not collateral damage.  Whether you'll agree with the following is something else: If Israel was not trying to target Palestinian civilians, it would not be targeting them, which it is doing all the time, even when there is not an "official" war--see, e.g., the blockade of Gaza and the ever-constricting and deathly colonization of the West Bank.

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