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View Diary: SoS Hillary Clinton and Egyptian Foreign Minister Announce Cease-Fire Between Hamas and Israel (163 comments)

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  •  Maybe we need to become irrelevant... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    corvo, cotterperson, Russgirl

    maybe Israel needs to be put in a situation where it has to defend herself by herself!! They are acting out like kids who know they got the big brother to take care of them and antagonize the little kids.  I support Israel but if they would just stop being greedy and selfish I'd have more sympathy. They don't want a 2 state solution they are fine being the oppressors and when the oppressees fight back then they start screaming we are just defending ourselves.  It's ridiculous they way the Palestinians have to live.  And I say that as a devout Christian with traditional Christian values.

    •  what part of 800 rockets don't you understand? (5+ / 0-)

      That's how many rockets Hamas fired on Israeli civilians this calendar year prior to the assassination of Jabri.

      I ask you, if deadly rockets rained down on your region, day after day, what would YOU want your government to do. Yeah, I know, it's a bit more complicated than that, but not by much.

      •  Why are they firing them off? That is the only (10+ / 0-)

        voice those folks have.  Israel keep taking land just because they can.  It is the classic case of the powerful vs the powerless.  the Palestinians are oppressed!! They can't feed their families, they can't work, they have to live in squalor..what would you do?  You'd try to fight back that's what you and any sound person would do.  

        •  How many did the Israelis fire, now, and how many (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          cotterperson, poco, wu ming

          people were injured or killed in the same time period?

          •  The Economist has the numbers (5+ / 0-)

            Data here.

            Of the Gaza missiles, the IDF claims to have intercepted 80 to 85% of them, and of the remainder, all but 35 fell in open areas (meaning they didn't hit anything).  The missiles are quite ineffective, and as the data show, traffic accidents kill far more Israelis than Palestinians do.

            Meanwhile, the attacks by the Israelis are far more deadly.

          •  Most recent figures (6+ / 0-)

            from Joe Buck's excellent link (dated Monday, Nov. 19):

            Number of Israelis killed by fire from Gaza, November 13th-19th 2012: 3
            (Source: press reports)

            Number of Palestinians in Gaza killed by Israeli fire, November 13th-19th: 95
            (Source: IDF)

            Last I heard on Al-Jazeera live, 20 Palestinians were killed this morning.

            "Let each unique song be sung and the spell of differentiation be broken" - Winter Rabbit

            by cotterperson on Wed Nov 21, 2012 at 11:34:12 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  I agree. the Palestinians are not as effective (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            volleyboy1

            at conflict. It makes me wonder why they either attempt to attack Israeli civilians or support those who do so ? Israel will defend itself. Israel will not and cannot allow attacks on their civilians to continue in perpetuity with no response.

          •  So the answer we have here is that nobody who (0+ / 0-)

            quotes alleged Palestinian rocket firings in the last long period, not the last week, are not in possession of how many rocket firings and other firings by Israel occurred during the same period and how many people were injured or killed thereby?  As if there were none at all?

        •  try to fight back by attacking Israeli civilians (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          volleyboy1

          is what any sound person would do ?

          And yet would you not moan about collateral damages we impose upon others in our wars ?  I am not saying that we should not try to avoid collateral damage (although I strongly rather suspect that the civilians do not disagree with the terrorists they shield in terms of political views). For example, would anybody seriously argue that most Pakistanis or Jordanians or Saudis harbor pro Western or pro US views ? Or that it was legitimate for the US to strike Bin Laden while he was in Pakistan ? Who will argue once that most Pakistanis disagree politically with Al Qaeda ? Such a view would be hopelessly naive. Why ? Where do they get their worldview ? Where do they get their information, facts, and the context in which those facts are presented ? While many points of views are readily available in the US and less available in the Middle East, that is not the point I am making here. I am simply pointing out how hopelessly unrealistic it is to attribute superhuman abilities to those living there, the ability to discard everything that they have been told since childhood by every single trustworthy adult that they have ever known. Hence, the US is evil. And everything the US does is wrong. And the US must be defeated. ....

          It is a fair statement that no nation historically has ever done more good than the United States. Other than everybody else, we are terrible.

          :-)

      •  This is not quite correct, I believe (6+ / 0-)

        that's how many rockets were fired from Gaza, not how many were fired by Hamas.

        And Jabari (before he was killed) was fairly effective keeping that number as low as it was.

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