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View Diary: "Climate change: it's even worse than we think." A sobering reality for Thanksgiving ... (114 comments)

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  •  If I might add, one big resource on Divestment (13+ / 0-)

    From Big Oil   was  pointed out by Bill McKibben this week, and I invite folks to check out the diary I just put up about it  after commenting in this excellent one.

    Forbes: "Is It Time To Divest From Exxon?"; + 350.org Tour Livestream Report

    Move Single Payer Forward? Join 18,000 Doctors of PNHP and 185,000 member National Nurses United

    by divineorder on Wed Nov 21, 2012 at 02:58:49 PM PST

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    •  The best way to divest from Exxon (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      A Siegel, divineorder, Cliss, FischFry, Lujane

      is to drive an electric car, and then invest in a solar powered charging station.

      The sleep of reason brings forth monsters. --Goya

      by MadScientist on Wed Nov 21, 2012 at 03:23:24 PM PST

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      •  Well ... (8+ / 0-)

        perhaps to live in a way that you don't need a car?

        Blogging regularly at Get Energy Smart NOW! for a sustainable energy future.

        by A Siegel on Wed Nov 21, 2012 at 03:41:44 PM PST

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        •  Yes! (5+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Cliss, Lujane, citisven, PeterHug, mightymouse

          Have friends in Boulder and Zurich that have been car free most of their lives.

          Move Single Payer Forward? Join 18,000 Doctors of PNHP and 185,000 member National Nurses United

          by divineorder on Wed Nov 21, 2012 at 03:56:56 PM PST

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        •  I heard something different last week.... (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          A Siegel, Lujane, catfood

          I have no basis to evaluate such assertions,e specially without knowing what numbers the guy was using, but I heard some dude -- I think he might have been interviewed on Marketplace, but I won't swear to that -- make this claim:

          That buses are actually worse than cars (on average, I guess) per passenger, per mile. Not sure whether that was strictly efficiency or emissions or both. He also added that while trains are better than cars, those numbers were skewed heavily by the NYC subway which carries so many passengers (millions), so efficiently, each day -- that if you took the NYC subway out of the equation it was a closer call.

          I love me trains, but I recognize there are serious limitations because one has to get to and from  the train, which may not run near either or both your starting and endpoints.

          Cars are actually a pretty miraculous mode of travel -- because they can get you from point to point easily -- even if increasing gridlock is beginning to reduce their utility. If, however, we could replace the internal combustion engine, cars might become among the most environmentally efficient  modes of travel. They might even rival the bicycle, which isn't necessarily realistic for all people or all trips -- after all, you generate a lot of CO2 on your bike.

          Then, of course, we'd still have to fix the traffic.....

          Coming Soon -- to an Internet connection near you: Armisticeproject.org

          by FischFry on Wed Nov 21, 2012 at 04:42:49 PM PST

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          •  How about ... (5+ / 0-)

            80 percent of my personal local travel being by bicycle with rest mix (mainly) of HEV and then subway.

            There are lots of ways to calculate transportation #s and impacts.  DC subway does pretty well, as well, against vehicles. NYC has the largest single impact of a transit system because of such a broad range of people who can live w/out vehicles. DC's metro doesn't support this for most people.

            Blogging regularly at Get Energy Smart NOW! for a sustainable energy future.

            by A Siegel on Wed Nov 21, 2012 at 04:59:48 PM PST

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            •  That's you (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Creosote, Lonely Texan

              Bicycling doesn't work for most people...especially in the DC area, where the commutes can be long...and hot...and hilly, etc.... It's getting easier to do -- especially as a way to get to and from Metro, but that works for people who are fit enough and who don't have a lot to take with them.

              I think it's great that some people can get around easily on bikes, but ti's wrong to assume that everyone could do the same if they just put their minds and legs to the cause. Too many bicyclists don't understand this.

              Coming Soon -- to an Internet connection near you: Armisticeproject.org

              by FischFry on Wed Nov 21, 2012 at 05:21:55 PM PST

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          •  Attack on electric vehicles as polluting: Cheney's (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            A Siegel, divineorder, PeterHug

            hand is in this, believe it or not.

            The first aspersions were made in the Daily Caller. Who are they?

            Founded in 2010 by Tucker Carlson, a 20-year veteran journalist, and Neil Patel, former chief policy advisor to Vice President Cheney, The Daily Caller is a 24-hour news publication providing its audience with original reporting, in-depth investigations, thought-provoking commentary and breaking news.
            Yep.

            Here is a link to the breaking story against electric cars: it is a masterful bit of propaganda, where even the original researcher is quoted truthfully, and the lies are told (with one exception) strictly through the omission of inconvenient truths:

            http://dailycaller.com/...

            To rinse your eyes after exposure to this form of evil propaganda, use this interview with the original researcher by EV WORLD (a thirty-minute interview can also be downloaded at this link):

            http://evworld.com/...

            Finally, lest you think I would not have you notice that I had moved to a less-than-disinterested magazine as a source, here is the abstract to the research cited by both rags: it is actually quite interesting, with other revelations about the pollution implications of various forms of urban travel:

            http://pubs.acs.org/...

            I happen to have these links handy, as I use them in a lesson on why college students must dig into multiple sources for a maximal approximation to the truth.

             

            The labor of a human being is not a commodity or article of commerce. Clayton Act, Section 6.

            by Ignacio Magaloni on Wed Nov 21, 2012 at 09:55:09 PM PST

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          •  That last bit, no. (0+ / 0-)
            after all, you generate a lot of CO2 on your bike.
            No, you don't really. That CO2 came from the current cycle of living plants and animals. You're just putting back the carbon that some plants pulled out of the air six months or a year ago. That stuff is all steady-state in the long term.

            Put another way, the more you pedal that bike, the more CO2 you make, but you'll also get hungry and consume (directly or indirectly) more plants than you otherwise would have. And the growth of those additional plants paid forward for the surplus carbon you're producing today.

        •  Those of us who live in New York (7+ / 0-)

          have no doubt about climate change, our beloved city was flooded beyond recognition.

          Take a look at this map to see the extent of flooding in New York.

        •  Certainly, for those who can. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          FarWestGirl

          Those who live in cities with full urban infrastructure built in, like Public Transit,  or such sub and ex -urbs that can so provide.

          Rural folks,  who are at this point only a fraction of the US population, still need personal transpo because of the distances involved, especially in the West.  The majority of those folks are not (myself included)  going to be able to afford the costly  "investment"  in electric car/recharge tech.  They'll  need help; subsidies,  or whatever they will be called.

          don't always believe what you think

          by claude on Wed Nov 21, 2012 at 07:11:04 PM PST

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      •  Right, but also losing the investments in stocks (0+ / 0-)

        etc hits them in the pocket book!

        Move Single Payer Forward? Join 18,000 Doctors of PNHP and 185,000 member National Nurses United

        by divineorder on Wed Nov 21, 2012 at 03:56:08 PM PST

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        •  I'm dubious about how practical divestment is... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          marsanges, A Siegel

          If all the ecologically minded people in the world divested their fossil fuel stocks (and most don't own any directly), it would just drive the price of the stock down and make it a better value for people who are not ecologically minded, who would make even more money as Exxon, etc. continue to rake in profits.  

          The way to hit them in the pocket books is to attack the profits.  If we could all quit buying gasoline, for instance.  Even if you ride the bus, you're burning diesel fuel.  Not too many people are willing to ride a bike every where they go.

          The sleep of reason brings forth monsters. --Goya

          by MadScientist on Wed Nov 21, 2012 at 04:07:53 PM PST

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