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View Diary: Why do so many folks here use the term "Old Testament" as code for barbarism? (265 comments)

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  •  Wrong, wrong, wrong wrong (6+ / 0-)

    It is very specifically not a Jewish belief.  You are describing Calvinism.

    Don't know where you got the idea that wealth implies divine approval, but no, that is not in any way, shape or form Jewish belief.  It has no root in the Biblical tradition, it is counter to what's in the Mishnah and in the Gemarah (collectively, what people call Talmud), and it's not in the culture of either European, North African or Asian Jews.

    Christian culture lacks the ability to self-reflect, more than either traditional Judaism or Islam.

    [I]t is totally not true that Mitt Romney strapped Paul Ryan to the top of a car and drove him to Canada. Stop spreading rumors! -- Gail Collins

    by mbayrob on Wed Nov 21, 2012 at 04:34:30 PM PST

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    •  Read about Job (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      suesue

      You'll see it clearly as those who see him on the trash heap keep telling him to repent of his sins.  He was spiralled into poverty not because he was a sinner, but as a test of his devotion to God.

      There already is class warfare in America. Unfortunately, the rich are winning.

      by Puddytat on Wed Nov 21, 2012 at 04:49:01 PM PST

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      •  And if you re-read Job (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Diamond Mind

        You'll see that God scolds Job's friends who talk that way. So by the normal rules of story-telling, you'd have to assume that the lesson of the book of Job is the opposite of what Job's friends tell me.

      •  Job is also, very, very late (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        CroneWit

        almost too late to be in the cannon.  The rabbis came close to excluding it, most likely because it has more than a twinge of Hellenistic influence in it.

        Surveys have shown that Jews give rather large amounts of charity compared to many other groups in the US.  Part of the less appealing reason for this is that wealth does not confer any particular approval or acceptability, as say, intellectual prowess does, so in affect, better-to-do Jews have generally understood that donating money is an inferior second best that confers some lesser degree of social approval.

        Jews as a group tend to not be respecters of either wealth or authority, especially Jewish wealth or authority.  The idea that wealth indicates divine favor tends to be a Protestant Christian notion, and in particular, of groups that had Calvinist influence.

        This is why Jews of a given income level in the US tend to be a lot more liberal and Democratic than many other US ethnic groups:  while for historic reasons, Jews tend to end up in business or in earning professions, this reflects more that they tend to be urban than rural, and because in Europe, they mostly couldn't live on the land, since they could be neither lords nor serfs.  But the culture does not particularly respect business as a way of making a living, and at best looks at wealth as a means rather than an end.

        [I]t is totally not true that Mitt Romney strapped Paul Ryan to the top of a car and drove him to Canada. Stop spreading rumors! -- Gail Collins

        by mbayrob on Wed Nov 21, 2012 at 08:48:40 PM PST

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      •  more accurately, a bet with Satan (0+ / 0-)

        Sort of like Trading Places.  But, as the Deity himself tells Job, He's God.  What's he gonna(or can he) do about it.  That's all the justification God needs.

        You may think that. I couldn't possibly comment.-- Francis Urqhart

        by Johnny Q on Fri Nov 23, 2012 at 01:43:08 PM PST

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    •  Christians don't self-reflect? (0+ / 0-)

      Isn't the whole point of the Pope and the catholic hierarchy to be self-reflective?

      If not then, isn't the idea of 'praying on it' and hearing god's word, or feeling the holy spirit enter your mind a form of self-reflection?

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