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View Diary: Why do so many folks here use the term "Old Testament" as code for barbarism? (265 comments)

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  •  Oy. (7+ / 0-)

    A long-time lurker who then became a community member 3 years ago introduces himself to the community with this diary.
    Oy.
    A member of a progressive political blogging community which is famous for claiming to be reality-based accuses other members of the community of being antisemitic because they find a christian-translated ancient text barbaric.
    Oy.
    A kossak has the chutzpah to post this fact-free nonsense

    The "Old Testament" is not only the sacred scripture of Jews, but it is also the sacred scripture of most Christians. It is only rejected by a fraction of Christians -- namely those who subscribe to the so-called "replacement theology".  And even these folks don't view the Jewish law or teachings as wicked, merely as obsolete, or unnecessary for "salvation" -- replaced by the guidance that the Holy Spirit (in their view) gives to Christian believers.
    and expects the rest of us to take him seriously after that debacle of history and theology.
    Oy.
    A 21st century human writes this
    It mandates communal taxation for the benefit of the poor and the stranger, demands equal justice for the rich and poor, condemns neglect of the poor, sick and needy, and argues multiple times against xenophobia against the foreigner ("as you were foreigners in Egypt").
    as though he is actually ignorant of those same laws in cultures that predate any accepted historical appearance in Jewish culture, and follows it with this nonsensical and unsubstantiated assertion.
    In short, it is the fount of most of the values that guide those of us who are led to be progressive Democrats in the first place.
    Oy.
    I've just wasted nearly an hour reading and replying to prejudiced, ahistorical, ill- mal- and misinformed garbage, and in the end my only hope is that it will be another 3 years before you publish another diary.
    Oy vey.

    Enough fossil fuel remains on Earth to warm it 6 degrees C by 2100 AD if it is all used. A +6 C planet will only sustain half a billion humans. Human population will rise to 9 billion by 2050. Any questions?

    by davidincleveland on Wed Nov 21, 2012 at 06:00:10 PM PST

    •  You'd do better... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      CroneWit, millwood

      if you'd rebut the things you claim are wrong, using actual examples, rather than just say this is ahistorical and this is misinformed garbage, and such and such is a debacle of theology.

      You might start with my paragraph about how the OT is the sacred scripture of all Jews and most Christians, and how even those Christians who think it's superseded don't think it's wicked, but rather that it doesn't save.

      I listed many of the Torah principles which I think underlie progressive values.  You're also welcome to explain why it's nonsensical and unsubstantiated.

      Because if you think I'm going to retract what I say simply because you think it's crap, you will be waiting for more than 3 years.

    •  daveinclieveland, I'm (0+ / 0-)
      actually ignorant of those same laws in cultures that predate any accepted historical appearance in Jewish culture
      And I'd really appreciate it if you could point me to some online study materials to substantiate your statement.

      I mean, yeah, maybe Ashoka (although I forget his dates), but did his culturefield really interact with the mid-east/Mediterranean culture field that was the cradle of Judeao-Christianity?  Mebbe so.  Hook me up with some links, and I'll read 'em.

      •  There were Buddhist teachers at (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        CroneWit

        the Library of Alexandria. In Greek they were known as Sarmanoi, from the Sanskrit Sramana (Disciple). The Bactrian Greek kingdom established by one of Alexander's generals converted to Buddhism in the second century BCE, and sent missionaries westward and northward to the Parthians, Scythians, Greeks, and Romans. The first Buddhist missionaries to reach Athens arrived in 13 BCE.

        Buddhism and the Roman world

        Some people think that Buddhist ideas influenced early Christianity, though not Jesus himself.

        America—We built that!

        by Mokurai on Wed Nov 21, 2012 at 10:50:21 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Not unreasonable to assume (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          CroneWit

          We should also remember that Buddhism grew out of the Indian religious scene in a manner not so different from how Christianity grew out of Judaism.  And that Zoroastrianism is not very far removed from the origins of Hinduism.

          Whether or not Buddhist ideas affected Judea or not, Indo-Iranian ideas absolutely did.  The Jews clearly saw the Zoroastrians  as kindred spirits, and did not see their religious tradition as avodah zarah ("foreign worship", i.e., the worship of idols;  I don't want to use the word "pagan" here).  Anything around the End of Days, the various myths and ideas about The Adversary (Hebrew:  satan) are more Iranian than Hebrew, but you can't really talk about either Christianity or Rabbinical Judaism without making reference to them.

          [I]t is totally not true that Mitt Romney strapped Paul Ryan to the top of a car and drove him to Canada. Stop spreading rumors! -- Gail Collins

          by mbayrob on Thu Nov 22, 2012 at 01:28:05 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  Oy (0+ / 0-)

      and nobody does anti-semitism better than Jews, as your post makes clear.

      At Google, they like to say "Don't Be Evil".  Well, I'm going to say to you:  "Don't Be A Schmuck".

      Schmendrick :-)

      [I]t is totally not true that Mitt Romney strapped Paul Ryan to the top of a car and drove him to Canada. Stop spreading rumors! -- Gail Collins

      by mbayrob on Wed Nov 21, 2012 at 11:40:54 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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