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View Diary: Egyptian Democracy looks a lot like Totalitarianism (51 comments)

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  •  populism has this tendency (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Troubadour, Geenius at Wrok

    Populism leans right because it sees itself as an unfiltered expression of the collective will of a unitary "people".  Rule by decree can be justified on the grounds that you're decreeing things that the people would vote for anyway. That, or you believe yourself to have a unique insight into the wants and needs of the people and the country, so decree simply becomes strong paternalistic leadership that will be vindicated in the end.

    To those who say the New Deal didn't work: WWII was also government spending

    by Visceral on Thu Nov 22, 2012 at 12:30:59 PM PST

    •  One of the conundrums of real democracy (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Kane in CA, IreGyre

      that impatient leaders who see themselves as trying to solidify a revolution almost always get wrong: You can't free people by being arbitrary.  Fear and hatred of the Old Order is so often the root from which the New Order turns into a nightmare - the French, the Russians, Chinese, Cambodians, so many people have experienced this fact.  The beginning of freedom is giving people the chance to choose who they are, even if they choose "wrongly."

      "They fear this man. They know he will see farther than they, and he will bind them with ancient logics." -The stoner guy in The Cabin in the Woods

      by Troubadour on Thu Nov 22, 2012 at 12:51:20 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  revolutions see themselves as acts of will (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Troubadour

        I think that arbitrariness gets justified on the grounds that the revolutionaries think they have to make stuff happen that doesn't really want to happen: they're fighting entrenched interests, social inertia, human nature, etc.  The argument is not merely that free people will choose "wrongly", but that they won't choose at all, and the glorious epoch-making revolution will simply peter out into a handful of trials and token reforms.  Revolutionaries believe that they're uplifting their nations - less New Order than higher order - as opposed to simply making a coup and ideally everything goes on as before except with their face on the money.  If that was the case then the usual post-revolutionary crackdown with decrees and purges and the like wouldn't happen; the new boss is happy to do exactly what the old boss did - he just wanted the office.

        To those who say the New Deal didn't work: WWII was also government spending

        by Visceral on Thu Nov 22, 2012 at 01:15:05 PM PST

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        •  Yup. All true liberators are reformers. (0+ / 0-)

          Revolutionaries are just people pissed off that they're not the ones running the police state.

          "They fear this man. They know he will see farther than they, and he will bind them with ancient logics." -The stoner guy in The Cabin in the Woods

          by Troubadour on Thu Nov 22, 2012 at 01:22:34 PM PST

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          •  Prrrretty amazing that you think this is why (0+ / 0-)

            Haiti revolted and threw out the French.

            "the Agency continues to verify the non-diversion of declared material at these facilities and LOFs."

            by JesseCW on Thu Nov 22, 2012 at 04:07:21 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Lovely non sequitur. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              GoGoGoEverton

              "They fear this man. They know he will see farther than they, and he will bind them with ancient logics." -The stoner guy in The Cabin in the Woods

              by Troubadour on Thu Nov 22, 2012 at 05:06:37 PM PST

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              •  You argue that the only reason anyone revolts (0+ / 0-)

                is to be the one in charge.

                I didn't put those words in your mouth.

                Lacking the courage to fight for real change is not a virtue.  

                In the end, only revolution ends truly bankrupt systems of exploitation.

                Conflating revolution with war, of course, is a common error.

                "the Agency continues to verify the non-diversion of declared material at these facilities and LOFs."

                by JesseCW on Thu Nov 22, 2012 at 06:09:30 PM PST

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                •  No. (0+ / 0-)

                  I argued that people who make a career out of revolution just want to be the ones in charge.  Reformers stop being revolutionaries the moment the guns go silent and invite their enemies to the table.

                  "They fear this man. They know he will see farther than they, and he will bind them with ancient logics." -The stoner guy in The Cabin in the Woods

                  by Troubadour on Thu Nov 22, 2012 at 08:04:27 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

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