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  •  They are con men if they know they are lying (57+ / 0-)

    ... conning an ignorant electorate by appealing to their per-conceived notion, rather than telling them the truth.

    If they do believe what they say, they are superstitious ignoramuses.

    Either way, they cannot be trusted with the levers of power ever again. They certainly cannot be trusted with that power, when the fate of the planet literally rests in the hands of the rulers of the United States.

    Make sure none of these men or women ever holds electoral power again. Primary them and drive them from office in 2014.

    They say "cut back" - we say "fight back"!

    by Louise on Thu Nov 22, 2012 at 09:34:19 PM PST

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    •  Primary them? (12+ / 0-)

      Where do you suggest we find respectable, electable republicans for that?  Remember, Rubio is what passes for republican respectable.

      •  Primary them from the far right (12+ / 0-)

        Then run a more progressive Dem against that person. It's worked quite well the past two election cycles. Push the GOP so far to the right that voters have no choice but to reject them and vote Dem. In the near term, this is likely the only way to win in red districts and states.

        "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

        by kovie on Fri Nov 23, 2012 at 05:05:11 AM PST

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        •  Nobody will primary Rubio (5+ / 0-)

          He's their rising star. Besides, one of the reasons he's saying stupid shit like this is to prevent a primary challenge from flat-Earth Teahadist who may have no chance, but will eat up precious campaign funds while Rubio squashes him. It's the Lindsey Graham/Orrin Hatch Effect.

          "If you're going to go down with the ship, make it a submarine." - Wayne Shorter

          by Oliver Tiger on Fri Nov 23, 2012 at 06:00:34 AM PST

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          •  In his case I meant if he runs for president (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            No Repub is likely to threaten his senate seat for years to come. But while I doubt that he could beat a solid Dem candidate in 2016 if the economy continues to improve and Obama ends his presidency with a good approval rating, if the GOP decides to go for another dishonest hack like Romney (as opposed to a sane pick like Huntsman), I'd rather it be someone more obviously RW.

            "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

            by kovie on Fri Nov 23, 2012 at 06:15:35 AM PST

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            •  he may have a choice to make (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              native, greengemini, Louise

              since currently under FL law he could not simultaneously run for two federal offices at the same time.  I am quite sure that if such is what he wants to do that the legislature and governor will accommodate him, if Republicans still control both.  Don't think they will move in that direction before the 2014 elections, so if we can defeat Scott we can present him with a possible hard choice of which path to pursue.

              "We didn't set out to save the world; we set out to wonder how other people are doing and to reflect on how our actions affect other people's hearts." - Pema Chodron

              by teacherken on Fri Nov 23, 2012 at 06:17:52 AM PST

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              •  I wouldn't put it past them to amend statute in (3+ / 0-)

                next 2 years.  In fact, given Scott's current favorability ratings, it would be foolish to wait until 2015.  Next year would be the time to try to sneak it through.

                As to your diary, it's up to your usual high standards.  I try to not think about the fact that I am "represented" in the Senate by someone who is so visbily terrified of the religious right.  Then again, I have a gov who engaged in massive Medicare fraud and somehow got away w/ it.

                Sadly, there are Kossacks in many of the other 49 states who could offer similar tales of woe.  That's the key point I took from reading Krugman's column today.  Were the GOP right to question the existence of gravity, Rubio would be one of dozens of Goopers in Congress who would feign appropriate skepticism in public.

                Some men see things as they are and ask why. I dream of things that never were and ask why not?

                by RFK Lives on Fri Nov 23, 2012 at 12:24:04 PM PST

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            •  Be careful what you wish for, (0+ / 0-)

              It just might come back to bite you in the ass.  Repubs are PISSED! And convinced of their rectitude.  They think they lost because they weren't conservative enough, plus Obama gave away free stuff (he CHEATED).  You think they won't learn from this debacle?  They're not ALL stupid or blind.  We had better make damn sure that we have a GOLDEN progressive 4 years to hold up as a shining example to the American voter, and a damn great candidate for 2016.  Not to mention finding a way around all these right wing redistricting scams and come up with some great democratic candidates in the state legislatures for 2014.

    •  um, how are we, a bunch of liberals, (10+ / 0-)

      supposed to appreciably impact GOP primaries? Heck, we only rarely can successly primary a Democrat.

      •  I impact them by trolling conservative blogs (10+ / 0-)

        and fighting for the most extreme positions. In the case of Rubio, I would comment that until he truly admits that the earth is only thousands of years old based on the holy word of God he is just pandering and another Romney waiting in the wings.

        I had a lot of fun saying Ryan is a liberal and stuff like that during the election.

        Since when is the party that embraces all the top tenets of Satan allowed to call the God shots?--wyvern

        by voracious on Thu Nov 22, 2012 at 11:57:07 PM PST

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        •  I don't think this helps (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          qofdisks, Champurrado, doc2, Bronx59

          It just adds fuel to their wet, smoldering fire of ignorance. You become one more person who supports their stupidity and makes them even more convinced they are correct. If you think they will understand that you are being sarcastic or snarky, I can tell you that most of the Republicans I have known didn't have brains sufficiently developed to distinguish that.

          •  I think the idea (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            is that these people are iredeemable, being so stupid and wedded to a dead-end ideology that the only thing to do is push them so far to the right that a majority of voters will vote Dem because the Repub is simply too crazy.

            Why do you think the GOP is pushing its more "moderate"-seeming leaders? It can read the tea leaves (heh). But since these people aren't moderates, but rather amoral opportunists pretending to be whatever they need to seem to be to get elected, who could actually get elected because enough swing voters are stupid enough to buy the con (e.g. Bush, Walker, Kasich, Scott), the only near-term strategy of defeating the GOP in such states is to try to get the far-right non-moderate Repub selected as the nominee.

            "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

            by kovie on Fri Nov 23, 2012 at 05:10:30 AM PST

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        •  I do this, too. (5+ / 0-)

          There is something very Swiftian (think "A Modest Proposal") and satisfying about driving the discussion further right.  There are those that double-down, and then there are those who start questioning because it doesn't fit their reality.  When they take their extreme positions out of their echo chamber, they find that most people are aghast.  As the election proved.

          Culbert Olson is my hero!

          by chemborg on Fri Nov 23, 2012 at 03:56:11 AM PST

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          •  Yep! Isn't is amazing how the arguments (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            chemborg, greengemini, DvCM, Louise

            change when you start demanding that Medicare and Social Security stop immediately and that old people need to start taking care of themselves?

            One time I was agreeing with someone and said that people who work at Wal Mart make plenty of money and they just need to stop eating out and buying televisions. Books are free at the library. He started telling me I was being too hard on them LOL

            Since when is the party that embraces all the top tenets of Satan allowed to call the God shots?--wyvern

            by voracious on Fri Nov 23, 2012 at 10:49:26 AM PST

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          •  I've been a Freeper doing this for *years* (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            chemborg, melo

            They can't kick you off Free Republic when you are a decade-long user who has consistently been farther Right than most of them. I argue the farthest Right position that can be logically made ... a la "No Social Security for anyone," or "Breakdown down you local tax bill into things like "Police Fee," "Fireman Fee," and "Sidewalk and street cleaning."

            When they begin to think about what they will lose if they go through their tax-hacking, they begin to suddenly back away from their proposals.

            They say "cut back" - we say "fight back"!

            by Louise on Fri Nov 23, 2012 at 01:51:26 PM PST

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        •  Wow (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          CharlieHipHop, blueoasis, Bronx59, melo
          trolling conservative blogs and fighting for the most extreme positions.
          And what do you do when you want to have a bad time?

          Happy just to be alive

          by exlrrp on Fri Nov 23, 2012 at 05:10:23 AM PST

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        •  That's fun to do, but I don't know if we have the (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Dewstino, voracious, RUNDOWN

          numbers to have much impact, and still get our day job (promoting progressive ideas) done.
          The general discourse will marginalize the religious right (in fact they are naturally self-marginalizing, except for the pandering by gop pols and the current slant of big media).
          On one level the 1% and Wall Street want the electorate to be ignorant, however, the way forward for a sustainable economy goes thru science and technology and education, so ultimately even business has to make a choice whether to pamper home-schooolers or promote the foundation for our economy going forward.

          It took us more or less 40 years to get to this point. We made progress moving out of it in 2008, we faltered in 2010, now we're back on track.
          It will take a long period, at least a decade, to gain momentum in a positive direction. We have to persevere and maintain focus over a long period of time.
          All of these issues are interconnected: climate change, science denialism, public education spending, the social safety net, the failure of supply-side economics, middle class economy, green jobs, a 21st cent. infrastructure, etc.
          The gop has done a good job staying focused on obstruction of our economy and general progress, and heeding the demands of their base.
          They failed miserably this time. They feel like it's because they insufficiently camouflaged their true objectives in a moderate shroud (Akin, Mourdock) and because their lead guy was damaged goods.
          They've turned their denialism inward.
          They're starting to crack.

          They've ignored the problem with their gender politics an have focused on their problem with the hispanic vote, because they think the hispanic vote will be more conservative on gender issues. They will try to split our hispanic vote away from our women's vote.

          Our strength lies in the interconnectedness of the issues I cited above. We have a couple of hurdles to get over, involving the expiration of the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy "fiscal bump", etc. We need to sieze the initiative on comprehensive immigration reform, and then we need to start addressing climate change.

          As we do that, the religious right will become more and more marginalized as the gop is forced to get out of the way.  

          You can't make this stuff up.

          by David54 on Fri Nov 23, 2012 at 06:17:21 AM PST

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        •  Trolling right wing blogs. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Dewstino, voracious, Louise

          A very productive pursuit.

          •  Not really, but it makes me laugh when I come (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            DvCM, Louise

            across people arguing against their own interests.

            I mean, there is a large number of people out there today arguing that Wal Mart workers are greedy, they know what they are signing on for when they agree to work there and everyone should be copying Wal Mart's business model. It never occurs to these people that Wal Mart does not need to make billions of dollars when millions will be just fine.

            Since when is the party that embraces all the top tenets of Satan allowed to call the God shots?--wyvern

            by voracious on Fri Nov 23, 2012 at 10:50:58 AM PST

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            •  Actually, walmarts margins are tiny. (0+ / 0-)

              They are in a tough business. Last year they made 15 billion, but in order to do so they had to sell 450 billion dollars worth of stuff. So they made about $3 for every $100 of revenue. I think you'd have a tough time arguing that such a margin is excessive.

        •  Sweet, I like it...rock on! (1+ / 0-)
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    •  They are con men. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      shypuffadder, Dewstino

      You could've stopped there.
      Religion is the tool they use to rally their electorate. I would say most of the power electorate, the Koch Bros., Adelson, et al, do not believe the God stuff their party preaches. Its a means to an end.
      Unfortunately, they will continue to have power.
      Unless we can end gerrymandering, and somehow, 'un-gerrymander' these GOP funhouse districts, I don't see how we'll ever retake the house.
      On the national level, even with the fact of changing demographics, as long as they learn to pander well enough, there are still many people of color that will vote for their pocketbook.
      I know several of them, friends in the music industry, folks who I can't talk politics with anymore.
      In 2008, we were on the same page. 2012? Not so much.
      Some of them have seen their offshore bank accounts closed since 2008 by some new law. Wish that law would have affected more people, cough RMoney.
      So yes, they are brown or black, and they will vote Republican.

      "Please proceed, Governor."

      by Dema Broad on Fri Nov 23, 2012 at 02:50:03 AM PST

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      •  Religion has progressed (5+ / 0-)

        ..from being the "Opiate of the Masses" to becoming the "PCP of the Masses."

        I think Rubio's statement is just another example of Republican pandering to the all-important knuckle-dragging, slack-jawed contingent of his Party.

        It's telling that he would stoop that low in order to keep hope alive that he would be invested with a position of advancing his political position no matter what the consequences.

        He's either lying his ass off or he's too stupid for words.

        Either option makes him unfit of office.

        Maybe one day the Fourth Estate will take their jobs seriously. Or not..

        by Anthony Page aka SecondComing on Fri Nov 23, 2012 at 06:49:50 AM PST

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      •  hence the apt name: RepubliCONS (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Louise, Dema Broad

        "Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D."
        Four More Years! How sweet it is!!!

        by TrueBlueMajority on Fri Nov 23, 2012 at 08:36:23 AM PST

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    •  Liars or Fools (5+ / 0-)

      it's the perpetual existential question of conservatism.

      Are they con men who are exploiting the ignorant or are they idiots who simply can't handle reality or truth?

      Or both?

    •  Then there's the desire to mind-control people (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      by way of fear and superstition that appeals to them.

      Science undermines superstition and helps people to escape fear of the unknown. When that happens they lose control of their electorate.

      So, they must help out the religious leaders by making their claims appear legit. And at this point, if people start to actually believe the science, then the republicans and far right religious leaders start to look like the liars they are.

      The GOP has a lot at stake when it comes to maintaining the reputation of those espousing superstition as well as the superstition itself.

      Vote Tea Party Taliban! Bring the Burqa to America.

      by Pescadero Bill on Fri Nov 23, 2012 at 09:44:30 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

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