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View Diary: Crumbs much too small for the other Whos' mouses (199 comments)

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  •  Free Enterprise does not exist. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jabney, Words In Action

    Collectivism does not work.  The benefits cannot be spread equally.   I know this from personal experience with worker coops in the 70's.   We had a thriving business going, but the younger newer members did not want to sacrifice any current income in order to build a long term successful business.

    People need to be rewarded personally for their own efforts and risks.  Both big corporations and unions take this incentive away.    Together, they can completely block new entrants to the market.

    Originally, corporations had to demonstrate a public purpose, and their lifespan was limited to 40 years, a normal working lifespan of a human.

    "We" will not be able to take down the corporate power as it exists, but we could work to establish a different kind of corporation, and then try to do business with them.    

    Religion gives men the strength to do what should not be done.

    by bobtmn on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 07:11:37 AM PST

    •  And it never will .. because people aren't angels! (0+ / 0-)

      That's the mistake the author makes from the start of this journal.  In fact, capitalism would work IF people were angels.  But they are not so they scheme and use politics to distort the system.  In fact, democratic socialism is the more realistic system because it acknowledges that people will always seem undue advantage.  Therefore, the best way to deal with that is to create equality in the work place.  Worker owned cooperatives is an example of equality in the work place yet I wouldn't call it collectivism.  It's a variation on capitalism that curbs the excesses.

      "The real wealth of a nation consists of the contributions of its people and nature." -- Rianne Eisler

      by noofsh on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 07:33:27 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Re: A Different Kind of Corporation (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Words In Action, Mokurai

      I wrote a semi-tongue-in-cheek, semi-serious diary called, "Corporation Liberation Front" and point #3 was:

      Basic-structure autonomy. The Corporation Liberation Front supports the right of the corporation to choose between following a stakeholder/covenant model and a shareholder/exploitive model. Stakeholder/covenant corporations renounce personhood, are restricted to a two digit multiple of top CEO pay over the lowest actual paid employee, and are allowed to consider things such as stakeholder interests and Iriquois-standard 7-generations impact before considering current quarterly profits.
      While point # 3 didn't get any votes in the "Chances of happening first" poll attached to the diary, that may have been because the poll option below the point # 3 option was, "Ice skating in Hell."

      best,

      john

      Strange that a harp of thousand strings should keep in tune so long

      by jabney on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 07:44:46 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Consumer cooperatives generally work better (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Words In Action

      Mutual insurance companies, credit unions and retail consumer coops like REI do work. There are also many large, long-standing producer coops in the agricultural sector.

      Unions do not take personal rewards away, ask the NFLPA or Hollywood actors or almost anyone else who is a union member. That is one of the lies that corporations have been spewing for decades to allow them to steal the fruits of your work.

      Hey, hey, NRA, how many kids did you kill today?

      by freelunch on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 07:52:41 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  We need more of them (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        freelunch

        This is one area that our government has ignored. I like to see them extend loans to coops to get them started.

        "The real wealth of a nation consists of the contributions of its people and nature." -- Rianne Eisler

        by noofsh on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 08:54:39 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I would like to see the policy that the US (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          freelunch

          imposed on Germany after WW II: mandatory union membership in industry-wide, not craft-based, unions. Then management does not get to pit one union against another.

          In just the same way that the US occupation created a national health plan for Iraq.

          The needs were obvious, even to military planners with no prior experience in economics and government.

          America—We built that!

          by Mokurai on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 12:23:20 PM PST

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          •  What does "industry wide" mean? (0+ / 0-)

            Are car manufacturers an industry?   Are the repair shops in the same industry?   How about motorcycle makers?  Are they in it too?    Small engine manufacturers - lawn mower an boat motors.

            Airplane motors? Train motorsmakers?

            When does an industry stop?

            Religion gives men the strength to do what should not be done.

            by bobtmn on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 01:43:24 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

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