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View Diary: Ousted Florida Republicans, including ex-Gov. Crist, say voter suppression was state GOP's goal (146 comments)

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  •  Nice to have some evidence. (19+ / 0-)

    We've all known the goal for awhile. Karl Rove has understood this should be a long suit in the Republican bag of tricks, as he has mentioned to conventions of Republican attorneys for years.
    Cheats have little interest in a fair game; they are likely to lose those.

    •  Evidence died in a plane crash in 2004. (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      la58, dirtroad, 714day, Eikyu Saha, Janet 707

      Evidence dies every time computers are not preserved, especially email accounts.  

      Evidence dies every time "black boxes" are used to count votes where no independent authority can verify the code and there is no paper trail.

      Evidence dies - and by evidence, I'm not necessarily talking evidence of wrongdoing - but all evidence.  Imagine if we had proof that the black box ballot machines were 100% correct in their operation.  That would perhaps go a long way towards satisfying the "conspiracy theorists" that votes are being stolen.  It sure wouldn't satisfy everyone, but it would be a lot more people who are satisfied than are satisfied now.  I mean, if they have nothing to hide, why not show the code?

      •  Have a paper trail (7+ / 0-)

        When we don't have that, then I won't trust any election!

        •  Exactly what was said by the radical (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          CA wildwoman, ColoTim

          League of Women Voters who had been charged with the implementation of HAVA in 2004 (though not funded). They went unheard, of course.

        •  and the right to look at it (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          Here in RI, we use optical scanner machines, so the paper ballots are available for inspection. But the RI Supreme Court recently ruled (in a primary race decided by one vote, after 4 machine retabulations came out with 4 different numbers) that state law does not allow a manual / visual recount, only a machine re-feed recount.

          This makes no sense to me, and contradicts the theory that I thought was in the Bush v Gore lower court decisions, that votes should be counted if it is possible to discern voter intent -- even if the voter's marks screw up the scanner's counting system. (Stray marks invalidate a ballot; using the wrong pen makes it unreadable; circling names rather than connecting head and tail of arrow counts as "unmarked.")

          •  In NC, too. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            elphie, ColoTim

            We have optical scanners.  But I trust them, because you can take the same stack of ballots and feed it through a different reader; or take half the stack and put it through one reader and put the other half through another to see if they add up the same way.  It's all very real, confirmable, reproducible, transparent, and very fast, which allows for multiple confirmation.  And the ballot sheets are easy to fill out.  

            If the ballots are poorly designed, then get your district to design them better, or get machines that aren't prone to misinterpretation.  But I'm convinced that optical scanning is superior to other technologies, by a wide margin.  

        •  Not Enough. Mandatory Random Audits Must Be (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          CA wildwoman, ColoTim

          done in every state in every election.

          I could rig an election count practically with an Excel macro of 3-4 lines, and the shift would be large enough to avoid mandatory recount but small enough not to be too suspicious.

          With such close margins, subtle election fraud can win a race, and the only guard against that kind of thing is mandatory audits.

          We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

          by Gooserock on Mon Nov 26, 2012 at 03:57:19 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  I hope you are referring to something other than (0+ / 0-)

        the 2008 crash that killed Ohio Republican consultant Michael Connell, which election conspiracy freaks have fantasied was engineered by Karl Rove to silence him from testifying about the theft of the 2004 election. This is untrue. If you ARE referring to this, I am going to have to come back and HR you.

        Jon Husted is a dick.

        by anastasia p on Mon Nov 26, 2012 at 01:25:55 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Formal indictments needed @ the Federal level (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      714day, annieli, Neon Mama

      ..for civil rights violations.
      The ACLU has had success in Texas and Pennsylvania: Viviette Applewhite vs commonwealth also in other states, so with Greer, Christ and others (if they're wllling to testify), it sure seems like indictments could be in the works in Florida too but take it beyond state & approached as a civil rights issue

      In this HuffPo article The conspiracy to suppress, intimidate and otherwise disenfranchise voters should be prosecuted for what is it is under federal law: a conspiracy to violate the civil rights of American citizens. - Posted: 11/07/2012 1:34 pm

      There are some examples of very tough penalties:

      Originally passed in the aftermath of the killings of the three civil rights workers (James Chaney, Andrew Goodman and Michael Schwerner) in 1964 (the story behind the film, Mississippi Burning), the federal law makes it a criminal act, punishable by up to a life term in prison, or even the death penalty, to violate the civil rights of any person.
      Conspiracy Against Rights 18 U.S.C. § 241
      Lest one believe that public officials are exempt from such prosecution, the statute applies very specifically to public officials as well, even acting "under color of law." Indeed, there is a special section for it:
      Deprivation of Rights Under Color of Law 18 U.S.C. § 242
      It seems that there is no doubt that Rick Scott, Ohio Secretary of State John Husted and other public officials   participated in and/or are guilty of committing a federal crime
      Mike Turzai: voter suppression: "Done"

      A heavy price is what it's going to take to stop these scoundrels imo

      •  Umm.. about that (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Meteor Blades, CA wildwoman

        You call for "formal indictments" and then link to civil cases.  There is only one entity in the country that can bring about "indictments" and it ain't the ACLU.  Its the DOJ (or their state level equivalent) and it is statutorily impossible to charge someone with a crime for executing the duties of their office.  

        Anyone can bring a civil case and if the courts agree that a law is unconstitutional they can overturn it.  None of those cases involve the DOJ or anything approaching an "indictment".  Criminal law is not Civil Law.

        And the criminal statutes you list are for illegal acts done by private citizens.  

        These Voter Suppression tactics were passed in open sessions of state legislature in accordance with Florida's rules of lawmaking.  They passed two houses.  They were signed by the Governor.  They were enacted and enforced by the appropriate State officials.

        This is not conspiracy or fraud.  They promised to do this in their campaigns.  They ran ads talking about how important this is to prevent voter fraud.  They talked about it in town halls.  The people of Florida AGREED and voted in a large majority to the State House.  They then did exactly what they promised.

        There is nothing criminal about it.  You can challenge the laws (which we did A LOT in this election cycle) and you might win (which we also did A LOT).  You can convince Floridians that these people are d-bags that need to be voted out, though that appears to be an uphill battle.  but neither YOU nor the ACLU are allowed to prosecute ANYONE and the DOJ has no grounds here for a criminal complaint.

        They could have passed a law to reinstate Slavery in Florida.  If the Governor didn't veto it, the courts would have struck it down, but NO WHERE would there be grounds to criminally prosecute a single state official.

        But be careful flinging around legal terms and criminal accusations.

        Красота спасет мир --F. Dostoevsky

        by Wisper on Mon Nov 26, 2012 at 04:05:30 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  ACLU were examples (0+ / 0-)

          This was the thrust of my disorganized comment:

          it sure seems like indictments could be in the works in Florida too but take it beyond state & approached as a civil rights issue
          At the Federal level iow's - the DOJ

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