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View Diary: Senate Rs mad that Senate Ds might pass filibuster reform they agree with (98 comments)

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  •  I oppose Filibuster Reform (0+ / 0-)

    It's looking like the GOP is finally maturing and ready to come to the table, so tactically, it's really bad form to upend the rules of the Senate right when they appear to break ranks.

    Also, the public is on our side, and this will be seen as overreach, it will backfire horribly.

    We need to have a national conversation of tax rates not Senatorial procedures.

    I agree in principle, but the timing is off, and as I said before, strategically it will backfire big time.

    •  Um, no. (15+ / 0-)

      How can you say that the GOP is "maturing" when they spout nonsense like this? This is in no way any different from what they have been doing since 1994. This is hardly overreach; instead, it is playing to that public support, who can hardly be said to have endorsed gridlock. Ever.Your concern, however, is noted.

      "Lone catch of the moon, the roots of the sigh of an idea there will be the outcome may be why?"--from a spam diary entitled "The Vast World."

      by bryduck on Mon Nov 26, 2012 at 01:49:22 PM PST

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      •  To be crass, (0+ / 0-)

        the strategy is fucking stupid.

        Senate Republicans, and there enough to make the Senate hospitable again, Corker, Collins, Kirk, Murkoski, Graham, Alexander, are far more eager to cooperate than the House G-O-Tea.

        If you are going to go after the Senate GOP first, then you are destroying all of the leverage the election has granted you.

        The key here is to win over the Senate GOP, isolate the House and force the party to fight itself, not unite them over bullshit procedural rules that 95% of Americans don't know shit about.

        •  Show me some evidence (6+ / 0-)

          that any R elected since 1994 is willing to cooperate. Any substantive vote, taken at any time. You can't, because none have been made. There is no such thing as "win[ning] over the Senate GOP"; that's delusional.
          Getting rid of the filibuster is the only leverage we have to pass worthwhile legislation.
          They will fight itself regardless of what we do; they've proven that.

          "Lone catch of the moon, the roots of the sigh of an idea there will be the outcome may be why?"--from a spam diary entitled "The Vast World."

          by bryduck on Mon Nov 26, 2012 at 02:12:38 PM PST

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        •  True Centrist, what country have you been (5+ / 0-)

          living for the past 4 years?

          How many Republicans voted for Obamacare? How many are saying not NO but HELL NO to raising revenue through tax increases?

          Tell me again how the Rs are getting more reasonable, because your arguments seem REALLY FUCKING STUPID.

          "I believe more women should carry guns. I believe armed women will make the world a better place. Women need to come to think of themselves not as victims but as dangerous." Anna Pigeon

          by glorificus on Mon Nov 26, 2012 at 03:07:58 PM PST

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    •  Without Senatorial procedure reform... (10+ / 0-)

      a national (and more importantly RATIONAL) conversation of tax rates is simply not possible... and a plurality of Americans understand the "who and why" of that...

      Baby, where I come from...

      by ThatSinger on Mon Nov 26, 2012 at 01:49:55 PM PST

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    •  Call me cynical, (12+ / 0-)

      but I'll believe that Repugs are willing to honestly work in a constructive fashion to address necessary legislation when I see it. I have zero confidence that they will follow through in any meaningful manner. Even those who are right now saying that they no longer bow to Grover Norquist. I'm just not ready to accept that Lucy's going to let me kick the ball this go round.

      I say change the rules and make the Repugs stand up and do their fillibustering publicly.

      "She was very young,he thought,...she did not understand that to push an inconvenient person over a cliff solves nothing." -1984

      by aggressiveprogressive on Mon Nov 26, 2012 at 01:53:12 PM PST

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    •  Sorry about the timing but, the reform must be (8+ / 0-)

      applied during Senate change over.  
      The circumstances of public support for Democratic policies over Republican policies will still stand no matter the timing of filibuster reform.  Considering that the Democrats have the mandate to make changes, they better do it.
      Republicans are seen as obstructionists by the majority of American voters, so if they dig in their heels now about the fiscal cliff, they will be seen as the obstructionists regardless of the status of the filibuster.  Now is the time.

      •  Not true (0+ / 0-)

        the Democrats don't have a mandate for filibuster reform and that is overreach. They have a mandate for a second chance to get taxes fairer and jobs created, if they put consolidating power over both of those then 2014 will be painful.

        Here's how it will play out:

        -The Dems make a unilateral move to change long standing Senate procedures to weaken the filibuster.

        -The GOP throws a hissy fit, noting 2 things which are 100% correct: 1. This has never been done before and 2. What about jobs? jobs? jobs? (You can bitch about how they're opposition is also unprecedented--but two things--they are not in charge and that was the past--this is a brand new Congress.)

        -The effectiveness of those talking points will unite Congressional GOP to stop the Dem power grab--aka all of these soft "I was wrong" quotes coming from GOP Senators stop and the vitriol will return tenfold.

        -The public support weakens as the GOP effectively defines the Dem move as a power grab, misinterpreting the 2012 elections, and not focusing on jobs.

        -The Dems cave as moderate Dems like Landrieu, Conneley, Manchin and some 2014ers who are facing tough battles distance themselves from the power grab.

        -The first battle of the new congress is an embarrassing Dem defeat that was entirely self-inflicted.

        -The entrenched and unified Congressional GOP now raise their demands for the Fiscal Cliff discussions.

        This story has played out before, you folks really need lessons on when to choose your battles.

    •  Congress has an abysmal approval rating (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Marjmar, pelagicray

      and there's constant bitching that the Senate hasn't passed a budget, or much of anything for that matter, in ages. Filibuster reform is needed to change that.

      What's more, the reforms Reid has proposed are pretty reasonable. Filibusters should be for debate as originally intended. As such, Senators should have to take the mic to make them. Secondly, Senators should not be able to use the filibuster to prevent debate; that's just silly.

      Finally, many Democratic Senators and candidates, including Tammy Baldwin here in Wisconsin, ran using filibuster reform as an issue. The only backlash will be from whiny Beltway pundits who can't vote for Senate anyways.

      Male, 22, -4.75/-6.92, born and raised TN-05, now WI-02. "You're damn right we're making a difference!" - Senator-Elect Tammy Baldwin (D-Wisconsin)

      by fearlessfred14 on Mon Nov 26, 2012 at 02:07:38 PM PST

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      •  Are they more or less popular than syphilis now? (0+ / 0-)

        "I believe more women should carry guns. I believe armed women will make the world a better place. Women need to come to think of themselves not as victims but as dangerous." Anna Pigeon

        by glorificus on Mon Nov 26, 2012 at 03:12:17 PM PST

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        •  I don't know where to find STD approval ratings (0+ / 0-)

          but they are less popular than Nixon was during Watergate. They are still more popular than Blago in 2009 or themselves in 2011 (approximately equal ratings BTW).

          Male, 22, -4.75/-6.92, born and raised TN-05, now WI-02. "You're damn right we're making a difference!" - Senator-Elect Tammy Baldwin (D-Wisconsin)

          by fearlessfred14 on Mon Nov 26, 2012 at 03:25:49 PM PST

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          •  No, this was a comment from a politician before (0+ / 0-)

            the 2008 or 2010 election, to the effect Congress' approval ratings were really close to VD.

            I was wondering if any new info has come out since the election.

            "I believe more women should carry guns. I believe armed women will make the world a better place. Women need to come to think of themselves not as victims but as dangerous." Anna Pigeon

            by glorificus on Mon Nov 26, 2012 at 03:57:43 PM PST

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        •  There are drugs for syphillis (0+ / 0-)

          and sometimes, fun was had in the getting of the infection.

          I'm not sure there's any cure for the GOP leadership in the Senate, and near as I can tell, they're no damn fun at all.

          [I]t is totally not true that Mitt Romney strapped Paul Ryan to the top of a car and drove him to Canada. Stop spreading rumors! -- Gail Collins

          by mbayrob on Mon Nov 26, 2012 at 07:21:31 PM PST

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    •  I do not think we can depend on GOP maturity. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      glorificus

      And I believe The Public knows that.

      The GOP has repeatedly shown us that it does not care what most Americans want or believe. If it did our country would have universal healthcare, a balanced budget, and would have long ago stopped talking about taking away access to abortion that well of over 60% of Americans believe is and should be a right.  I don't see that changing because they lost this last election. They were, after all, quite successful in the previous election.

      I also think the public will see reinstating the filibuster requirements they saw in "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington" will be seen as what it is - correction of an error.

      An error that gave so much power to the minority, that the U.S. Senate ceased to be a democratic institution.

    •  Oh gosh, it's the right thing to do, (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Simplify

      But not NOW
      -the Democrats Epitaph

    •  This needs a snark tag (0+ / 0-)

      If you're joking, we should call it a snark tag on your comment.

      And if you're serious, well, can we put the snark tag on your account?

      [I]t is totally not true that Mitt Romney strapped Paul Ryan to the top of a car and drove him to Canada. Stop spreading rumors! -- Gail Collins

      by mbayrob on Mon Nov 26, 2012 at 07:19:52 PM PST

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    •  conciliatory remarks on Meet the Press (0+ / 0-)

      not the same as seeing Republicans actually vote that way. I'll believe that they are changing the least bit when I see it in a roll call vote that actually matters.

      "Did they really think that we wouldn't notice? Nice try-- but we got you!" Rev. Al Sharpton

      by growingMajorityMN on Mon Nov 26, 2012 at 11:47:22 PM PST

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    •  To quote an esteemed Kossack (0+ / 0-)
      the Filibuster: This procedural fuckstick has ruined the finest and most cordial body of Congress. The House has passed healthcare reform, financial reform, educational reform, and climate change. The Senate? zilch.
      That was you, back in January of 2010.  The filibuster, as currently constituted, does not serve the function intended.  To the extent that the filibuster serves a purpose, it is to enable the minority to maintain a voice in the conversation.  It is not intended to enable the minority to obstruct any any and all Senate business.  You, in a different comment recently, cautioned against assuming that this victory was more than it was.  In that context, the GOP calculated, in 2008, that obstruction was an effective strategy.  And it was, electorally speaking.  What makes you think they will calculate differently this time?

      This is not filibuster reform, it is simply reconstituting the filibuster to the form it was intended to have.  I fail to understand the political risk in so doing.  If you wish to bring cordiality back to the Senate, this is a necessary first step.

      Ancora Impara--Michelangelo

      by aravir on Tue Nov 27, 2012 at 11:11:48 AM PST

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