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View Diary: University of Colorado: Guns Laws Exacerbate Dorm Shortage (127 comments)

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  •  There are plenty of "facts" listed in the diary (7+ / 0-)

    and the article/video linked from it.

    I'm not going to spell out for you why students aren't wanting to live in the gun infested dorm, because nobody did a survey on that to understand why. But for whatever reason, this dorm for guns doesn't have one interested student, not one. At that point it hardly matters why people don't want to live there - even if we boil this down to the soulless impartiality of market economics, guns on campus failed, bigtime.

    The bottom line is that new laws allowing guns on campus are costing students money, and it's not some convoluted formula. It's direct. It's waste, pure and simple. It's redundant empty dorm zones. People can disagree about why that happened, but not that it did. But what comes off sounding like a flimsy gun rights apologist argument (gun rights apologists never have enough "data" to make sensible decisions, by definition - they never will) is to say there aren't enough facts to make a decision. That's not the problem in this case.

    •  You should try hurdles as a sport. (8+ / 0-)

      You jump to so many conclusions, it's hard to keep up with you. The University/ trustees made the bad decisions. ban nock explains it all.... Good luck.

      "The United States is a nation of laws: badly written and randomly enforced." -Zappa My Site

      by meagert on Mon Nov 26, 2012 at 06:08:53 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  PLEASE DELETE THIS GARBAGE or rewrite it! (10+ / 0-)

      Wow, you've just completely discredited your
      entire premise for this diary.

      At that point it hardly matters why people don't want to live there
      If you don't know why people don't want to stay in those dorms, then you CANNOT claim it's because of allowing gun owners to live there.

      -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

      by gerrilea on Mon Nov 26, 2012 at 06:11:20 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  That, I can claim (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Sandino, splashy

        The only distinction with these unwanted dorm zones are that they allow these more lenient gun permit uses.

        I'm not going to allow anyone to claim that the guns aren't the problems with the empty dorms.

        At that point we've left the realm of the real world and common sense, and it's not worth following gun rights people (or anyone else) into that territory.

        What I'm saying is that it actually doesn't matter why, if trying to determine whether these empty dorm rooms are likely costing students in terms of financial options and stress - and ultimately for some maybe even a better place for their families to live (young kids, opportunity, etc). There's a waiting list for rooms at this school, remember. That means some people are losing out, as we speak.

        Why it happens is one thing, and I don't have to get into it regarding the main point of  my diary - the financial cost of the gun laws. But I will. I'm just saying there isn't a survey to pinpoint it statistically. However, there is common sense, given the only thing that distinguishes the empty housing from the waiting list housing - is guns.

        •  We're a fact based community. When you make (9+ / 0-)

          claims that it is because of x, y or z, please provide your proof.  

          If it's just your opinion, that's fine too, but make that clear to all those whom may read it.

          -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

          by gerrilea on Mon Nov 26, 2012 at 06:25:58 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  If what I'm saying isn't clear (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Sandino, splashy

            then you have not "read it" (assuming by "it" you mean my comment to which you were replying). You may have flashed your eyes over "it" in an irresponsibly lazy way that allowed you to ignore the parts that you don't like, but that's not what I call "reading."

            You can disagree with what I'm saying concerning guns and empty dorms, but you can't say it's unclear. That's just dishonest and there's no point in me engaging with dishonest people.

            Why it happens is one thing, and I don't have to get into it regarding the main point of  my diary - the financial cost of the gun laws. But I will. I'm just saying there isn't a survey to pinpoint it statistically. However, there is common sense, given the only thing that distinguishes the empty housing from the waiting list housing - is guns.
            •  What you are claiming as fact is not (8+ / 0-)

              You claim the reason CU has a dormitory shortage is because they have irresponsible gun laws that allow people to be segregated for exercising an unalienable right.

              You're diary makes that perfectly clear.  You even selectively took out of context a link that does NOT SAY WHAT YOUR DIARY CLAIMS IT DOES!

              Then when confronted with these legitimate concerns, you then said it didn't matter.

              I read what you posted AND I understood it.

              HERE'S THE NEXT SENTENCE OF YOUR QUOTED LINK!

              On Aug. 16, CU announced that both campuses would establish a residential area for students over age 21 with a permit to hold a concealed handgun. In all other dormitories, guns are banned.

              "So far, no one has moved," CU spokesman Ken McConnellogue said.

              A multitude of things could explain the lack of interest. The population of students with permits is minuscule, so it could be that none with a permit is living in a dorm.

              But it's also possible not everyone who is armed is being forthcoming.

              There are students with permits attending both campuses, McConnellogue said.

              They admit they don't know why people aren't moving into those dorms!

              YOU then claim I'm being lazy AND not reading what you posted!

              AGAIN, we are a fact based community.  Especially when it comes to divisive social issues that will not get more or better Democrats elected!

              You can, even on these divisive issues, present your own opinion, go for it but be prepared to defend your position and opinions, you will be challenged.

              So far, you've engaged in a dishonest propaganda tactic befitting News Corp, NOT DK!

              -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

              by gerrilea on Mon Nov 26, 2012 at 07:07:02 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  I'm claiming it as common sense and will go on (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Sandino, splashy

                doing so.

                Because it is. People don't want to live in the gun dorms, because of the guns. It may be because they don't have guns, it may be because they don't like guns, it may be for other reasons involving guns, and possibly a few for reasons not involving guns (very few) - as for any rule there's an exception.

                Gun people can bang their heads against this one for as long as they want, and the rest of us will enjoy watching it.

                •  ROFLMAO - one thing you haven't though of (0+ / 0-)

                  is that once you move into one of those dorms, the whole concept of concealed is redundant.

                  So basically all the students will know who the gun carriers are, and they will probably be invited to way fewer parties.

                  •  So, tell us, why SHOULDN'T everyone know? (0+ / 0-)

                    Seriously, why is it that the people that carry guns don't want others to know, so they can decide for themselves if they trust them enough to be around them?

                    I fail to understand why gun carriers don't want others to know. It makes them seem really sneaky to me, hiding their guns from everyone.

                    Women create the entire labor force. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sympathy is the strongest instinct in human nature. - Charles Darwin

                    by splashy on Tue Nov 27, 2012 at 03:18:21 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  You asking the wrong person. (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      ShockandAwed

                      If it was up to me they would have to wear a CCP or RKBA tattoo on their forehead like a truck carrying Hazmat has to have warning signs.

                      But there are plenty here who will answer your question - rights, rights, privacy, constitution balh blah.

                    •  I demand to know what your faith is! (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      rockhound, Boris49

                      I demand to know what papers you read!

                      I demand to know what protests you've participated in!

                      I demand to know ____ (fill in the blank)

                      Come now, what do you have to hide?

                      Why you sneaking around with those subversive materials?

                      Let me decide if I trust you, clearly if you have any religion you are someone I wouldn't trust!

                      I simply don't understand why the Jews, the Christians, the Muslims don't like being singled out!

                      YOUR POSITION IS SHAMEFUL AND THESE POSTING SHOULD BE HIDDEN.

                      I haven't witnessed such bigotry on DK, ever!

                      -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                      by gerrilea on Tue Nov 27, 2012 at 04:47:50 AM PST

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                  •  Yeah, I'm sure being "invited" to parties (0+ / 0-)

                    is the reason.

                    Have you ever been to college?

                    Nobody gets "invited" to parties. You just go.

                    Congrats, that's the most moronic thing I've read today.

                •  You are being dishonest here. (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  oldpunk, KVoimakas

                  You admit that no one even polled them.  So you put words in their mouths and say they believe it.

                  False logic.

                  Unless you are one of the college students effected, you cannot claim you know what they believe.

                  I don't own any firearms, so you can imply all you want about "gun people"...it's a meaningless ad hominem meant to distract from your failure to provide evidence for your bigotry!

                  Maybe they don't wish to be branded with a public Scarlet Letter? Maybe they've read the damn Constitution?

                  This week, the CU decided to create separate dorms for those whom are of the Jewish Faith!

                  Are you getting the picture yet????

                  -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                  by gerrilea on Tue Nov 27, 2012 at 04:39:35 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

    •  RIF (8+ / 0-)
      "So far, no one has moved," CU spokesman Ken McConnellogue said.

      A multitude of things could explain the lack of interest. The population of students with permits is minuscule, so it could be that none with a permit is living in a dorm.
      But it's also possible not everyone who is armed is being forthcoming.

      There are students with permits attending both campuses, McConnellogue said.

      "I'm not surprised," said David Burnett, spokesman for Students for Concealed Carry. "You've proven you're legally, responsibly and morally able to carry, then the college comes back and tells you you've got to move.
      "What would you do?"

      Students with permits who choose to live in an unapproved dorm are not allowed to have their weapons on their person or in their rooms, according to policy.

      "We have to trust students will honor all provisions of resident-hall conduct until we see otherwise," McConnellogue said.

      This in response to a situation where a paid staff member, not a student, experienced an accidental discharge injuring a fellow staffer.

      (Am I the only person who saw Anschutz and wondered what do Austrian Firearms and Dentistry have to do with one another?)

      The concealed-carry issue was forced back into the spotlight this month when a staff member with a concealed-carry permit at the School of Dental Medicine on the Anschutz Medical campus accidentally shot a co-worker while showing her gun.

      Both of the staffers were injured in the incident, but neither was hospitalized, police said.
      The gun owner is no longer employed by the university, and charges were filed, according to police.

    •  tigerclub - just remove the "guns only" label (6+ / 0-)

      and fill up the dorm. Problem solved. If there is no demand for dorm rooms of students with gun permits then remove the "gun only" restrictions and rent out the rooms. This seems like a self-inflicted problem by the university administration. No one required them to isolate students holding gun permits.

      "let's talk about that"

      by VClib on Tue Nov 27, 2012 at 01:21:10 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  So, why don't the ones with guns want (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ShockandAwed

        It to be known they have guns?

        Women create the entire labor force. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sympathy is the strongest instinct in human nature. - Charles Darwin

        by splashy on Tue Nov 27, 2012 at 03:21:19 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Two schools of thought. (2+ / 0-)

          1. Concealed carry: if no one knows I have it, it deters criminals from attacking anyone and everyone since criminals know there are concealed carry permit licenses. Also, they don't know who to shoot first, like if I was open carrying.

          2. Open carry: if everyone knows I have it, no one's going to attack me or do a felony criminal act in front of me. Also, much more comfortable.

          Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

          by KVoimakas on Tue Nov 27, 2012 at 05:23:40 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  It's not clear that "segregated" (3+ / 0-)

        means an entire dorm has been set aside.  The diarist leaps from "no one has asked to move to the gun area" to "rooms are sitting empty" without any supporting evidence in either the linked article or video.

        For anyone old enough to remember smoking on airplanes, it might be a similar "flexible" segregation...the smoking section contained as many seats in the back of the plane as was necessary to hold all the smokers.

        The linked video states that this is the largest freshman class in UCCS history (~1,300), and the on-campus housing has only 535 beds. Something other than a segregated gun dorm (or portion thereof) might be causing the waitlist.

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