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View Diary: Rick Warren: Same-sex attraction is like violent impulses and 'arsenic' (235 comments)

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  •  He caught himself just in time. (11+ / 0-)

    If you notice the sentence you highlight:

    This is the very kind of discussions we need to be having, that are saying, treat everyone with dignity, that treat everyone with love, but we could disagree on certain issues.
    is in fact an attempt to change the subject. Immediately prior to that, he appeared to be leading up to an explanation that his beliefs about gay marriage are based on his religion, which has an obvious problem in a country that has the first amendment.

    His argument, I'm afraid, is internally consistent. The only problem with it is that we don't live in a theocracy. He would be well within his rights if he was only saying this to his congregation. Instead, he wants the rest of the country to follow his own particular interpretation of the Christian bible.

    I guess I come at it from an entirely different perspective. As I see it, the only argument against marrying someone of the same sex is religious. Whether or not it's innate or a choice is irrelevant. I guess that's because I find both men and women attractive and, therefore, for me, it is a choice. Other people, both straight and gay, tell me it's not and I accept their own account of themselves.

    Should I be disallowed from have a relationship with a woman simply because I'm capable of being sexually attracted to a man? The only reason for disallowing that is because of religious beliefs, beliefs I don't share. The reality is that Rick Warren wants to impose his religious beliefs on other people.

    •  I don't think we disagree (15+ / 0-)

      Like you, I'm 100% supportive of Rick telling his congregation they oppose marriage equality and gay relationships, if he left it at the Church doors. But he's a radical activist Christian that believes all Americans, Jewish, Atheist, Muslim, whoever need t live by his version of Christianity.

      But, I also think it's important point out how totally phony it is to simultaneously claim to treat people with respect and dignity, then compare their relationships to violence and poison.

      Find me a homosexual that believes Rick Warren treats us with "love and dignity." Puh-leez. We know a nasty, condescending turd when we hear one.

      •  I didn't think that we did. It's just that when (4+ / 0-)

        I was watching I noticed that he was leading up to saying one thing and then suddenly changed the subject.

        The bible clearly states that I am absolutely in control of my actions, and since I have chosen my authority for my life, not the government, not the common culture.... Hey, by the way. . .
        Here in Maryland, they were able to get some religiously conservative pastors to come out in favor of marriage equality. Since the vote was relatively close, that may have been important. The statements they made emphasized the importance of a separation between church and state. The pastor I have in mind will most certainly not be performing ceremonies between people of the same sex himself.

        We need to get people like Rick Warren to the same place.

        •  You can see that in the reproductive (4+ / 0-)

          rights battle as well -- despite what the bishops proclaim, most in-the-pew Catholics support a woman's right to choose (whether it's abortion or birth control) because they understand that they can't force their religion on anyone else. (They also understand the separation of church and state, which is why most also support civil marriage equality.)

          I'm an Episcopalian -- not a Catholic, not an evangelical fundamentalist. My church has no problem with marriage equality (though it's pretty much left up to bishop's option whether their diocesan priests can conduct ceremonies in the states where it's civil law), nor does the Church take an official stand on either contraception or abortion (leaving it up to the individual conscience). Why should I be forced to live under Catholic or evangelical church rules? What about my religious freedom?

          "If we ever needed to vote we sure do need to vote now" -- Rev. William Barber, NAACP

          by Cali Scribe on Wed Nov 28, 2012 at 12:13:52 PM PST

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    •  Great point (7+ / 0-)

      I'm capable of attraction to both sexes, so I "could" pass as heterosexual - if I were willing to give up the woman who's the love of my life.  Which I'm bloody well not.

      I shall die, but that is all that I shall do for Death; I am not on his payroll. - Edna St. Vincent Millay

      by Tara the Antisocial Social Worker on Wed Nov 28, 2012 at 10:41:58 AM PST

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      •  Plus, during the heyday of radical lesbian (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        lirtydies

        feminism, which I'm just old enough to have been involved with (believe or not, I know I don't seem like the type, and I'm not) there were a lot of women who chose to be "woman identified" for primarily political rather than libidinal reasons. Still to this day I find it funny that I once got chewed out for saying that I found my girlfriend attractive, by a self-identified lesbian who later admitted to me that she had little sexual desire for women. Apparently, she was afraid that I was imposing patricarchal standards of beauty on my girlfriend. Considering that she (my girlfriend) was probably among the most "butch" women I've ever known (a forbidden word at the time) the entire thing had a theater of the absurd quality.

      •  That works for me too (5+ / 0-)

        I'm capable of attraction to both sexes...but I'm not going to give up the love of my life, who happens to be male (I'm female, in case folks didn't know).

        The more I hear about the arguments against marriage equality, the more I'm reminded of the arguments against interracial marriage -- let's hope the SCOTUS shoots down the former as well as they did the latter back in 1967.

        "If we ever needed to vote we sure do need to vote now" -- Rev. William Barber, NAACP

        by Cali Scribe on Wed Nov 28, 2012 at 12:16:37 PM PST

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