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View Diary: Geithner Draws line in sand: No Rate hikes for 2% = No Fiscal Deal. Also, SS off table! (**Video) (259 comments)

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  •  Why? because (10+ / 0-)

    he was one of the major reasons that BO's stimulus was smaller than it should have been and why BO dragged his feet on taking decisive action to get the economy going again.

    The banks have a stranglehold on the political process. Mike Whitney

    by dfarrah on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 08:39:54 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  I think the members of Congress who cut down (20+ / 0-)

      the amount the president initially asked for were the real limit on the size of the stimulus...not Geithner. Ditto for the "decisive action" canard.

      •  According to Suskind, (8+ / 0-)

        several of BO's economic advisors argued for a much bigger stimulus package than the one eventually proposed by BO.  And Geithner and Summers were largely responsible for convincing BO to 'do no harm,' and supposedly, their arguments largely prevailed.

        Supposedly, the people repeatedly relitigated the issues, while BO simply allowed the process to go on and on and on.

        Some people here have said that Suskind's take has been debunked; however, it seems to track with what went on at that time as available in other reporting.

        IMO, BO should have immediately taken decisive action to stimulate the economy.  He did not do this.  Millions of people suffered unnecessarily due to his decisions.  

        And while you can blame everything on Congress, the bottom line is, just like HCA, he never came out swinging for anything.

        I hope his 2nd term is better, although historically, significant achievements are less likely in the 2nd term.

        The banks have a stranglehold on the political process. Mike Whitney

        by dfarrah on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 09:00:26 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I rarely believe the supposed insider information (10+ / 0-)

          when it's re President Obama.  Too many experiences that turn out to be "the cousin of the wife of a guy who was in the hall outside the room" caliber insider.  

          I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

          by I love OCD on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 09:51:12 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Like I said, the account (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            divineorder

            seemed to track with what was being reported at the time.

            The banks have a stranglehold on the political process. Mike Whitney

            by dfarrah on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 10:05:41 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  But none from any real insiders. (16+ / 0-)

              That's the point.  Geithner worked for Goldman Sachs has been accepted fact in the blogosphere for 4 years, and the basis for ridiculing his input on everything.  How are we different from Fox News watchers if we just swallow what we're told we should think by leftie pundits?  

              After I saw a G. Greenwald post deconstructed a couple of years ago I swore off trusting much of anything from FDL and related sites.  I resent being played by anyone.

              I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

              by I love OCD on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 10:28:01 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Yet you provide no links....... (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                RandomNonviolence

                Move Single Payer Forward? Join 18,000 Doctors of PNHP and 185,000 member National Nurses United

                by divineorder on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 12:32:40 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  search The People's View. (0+ / 0-)

                  Glenn shows up fairly often.  He's the left's Hannity.  Worse, he doesn't just use mangled paragraphs, he cuts and pastes sentences to misrepresent what Obama says.  

                  Or just fact-check everything.  It's all out there to be found.  

                  I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

                  by I love OCD on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 06:33:03 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

              •  "I swore off trusting much of anything from FDL" (4+ / 0-)

                I'm right with you.
                Jane Hamsher completely lost all credibility during the Public Option fight when she teamed up with Norquist to kill it.
                And Greenwald is a snake. He's one of the Libertarians that gained a Liberal following during BushCheney because of his opposition to their wars, then smoothly swiveled into Obama-hatred even before Obama was inaugurated.
                The guy is half full of sh!t and has no compunctions about twisting the facts to fit his agenda.

                If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

                by CwV on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 12:47:18 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  And yet you provide no links. (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  wsexson
                  •  You weren't here? Search Daily Kos. (0+ / 0-)

                    Lotsa stuff about Jane and Grover and killing the bill.  Made me wonder if there's any difference between right and left once you get to the fringes.

                    I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

                    by I love OCD on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 06:36:24 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  That's not what I'm referring to. (0+ / 0-)
                      And Greenwald is a snake. He's one of the Libertarians that gained a Liberal following during BushCheney because of his opposition to their wars, then smoothly swiveled into Obama-hatred even before Obama was inaugurated.
                      The guy is half full of sh!t and has no compunctions about twisting the facts to fit his agenda.
                      This is unsubstantiated drivel. No links.
                      •  Read his stuff, then check original (0+ / 0-)

                        source material.  Or search the people's view.  He gets called out for Fox techniques regularly.  

                        Best bet, though, is fact-checking, something we should all be doing when hysteria reigns on the Internet.

                        I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

                        by I love OCD on Mon Dec 03, 2012 at 07:20:27 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Read whose stuff? (0+ / 0-)

                          Greenwald's? He documents his positions thoroughly.

                          As for The People's View, I see no reason to read fawning drivel.

                        •  Greenwald holds Obama to the same standards... (0+ / 0-)

                          ...he held Bush to.

                          I imagine that's what you object to, isn't it?

                          And when Obama did the same thing that Bush did, he called out the fawning, hypocritical sycophants who screamed to high heaven about Bush's assaults on the Constitution and Bush's illegal war in Iraq, for example, but who then defended Obama when he continued the same war and the same assaults on the Constitution.

                          I imagine that's what you object to, too, isn't it?

                          •  Really. So I was hallucinating (0+ / 0-)

                            when I read a rant, er reasoned and logical critique, that picked half-sentences, glued them together, left out paragraphs that clarified the actual statement in order to claim Obama said something he never said.

                            Sorta like the you didn't build that controversy.  I expect better from people who claim to be lefties.  Or thinkers.  But that's just me, not fawning over Very Important Writers.

                            I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

                            by I love OCD on Mon Dec 03, 2012 at 08:45:39 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Since you provide no links, yes, you were. n/t (0+ / 0-)
                •  You lose all credibility when you do not know... (0+ / 0-)

                  ...the basic facts of the matter, just what you are told to think.

                  Let me enlighten you:

                  You collect signatures on letters like these to get media traction, to build pressure so someone has to take action.  Kevin apparently didn’t read our letter — it’s about a bailout of Fannie/Freddie that they’re trying to jam through before the end of the year, nothing to do with health care. He also apparently slept through the past nine years when people on the right like Bob Barr, Grover Norquist and Bruce Fein were cosigning letters with ACLU civil libertarians all the time when it came to FISA, domestic spying and transparency.  It was hard for them to do, because Bush sycophants dismissed them as “traitors” to the president.

                  For those with short memories:  Here’s Wes Clarke, Mort Halperin, John Dean, John Podesta, Grover Norquist, Bruce Fein and Bob Barr on the Liberty and Security Protection Committee of the Constitution Project.

                  Here’s Alec Baldwin and Grover Norquist speaking on a PFAW panel in opposition to the Patriot Act.  Grover cosigned an ACLU letter against the CAPPS airport spying system in 2003,  opposed  national ID cards with them in 2004,  and supported Prof. Lyle Craker and marijuana grown for medical research in 2005.  (And just for fun, here’s Kevin himself cheering on Bruce Fein for going after Roy Moore.  Apparently that’s only supposed to cut one way.)  For those who are strangers to the civil liberties/transparency world, this stuff has been happening for years right on this very blog.

                  Emphasis added.

                  And I guess you also think the NAACP has lost all credibility:

                  This blog’s proprietress takes a lot of heat from critics for a letter she wrote with Grover Norquist calling for an investigation of Rahm Emanuel over his activities at Freddie Mac. It was seen as the worst thing of all time to team up with Norquist, who has only malign intentions at heart.

                  Surely all of those critics will now line up to castigate the NAACP, who today released a report that Norquist, David Keene of the American Conservative Union and others have embraced about prison reform.

                  The report examines escalating levels of prison spending and its impact on state budgets and our nation’s children. It uncovers a disturbing connection between high incarceration rates and poorly performing schools.

                  Misplaced Priorities tracks the steady shift of state funds away from education and toward the criminal justice system. For instance, in Houston, Los Angeles and Philadelphia, more than 65 percent of the lowest-performing schools are in neighborhoods with the highest rates of incarceration. Researchers found that over-incarceration most impacts vulnerable, often minority populations, and that it destabilizes communities. The report offers recommendations that would help policymakers downsize prison populations and shift the savings to education budgets. Connecticut spends approximately 400,000 to incarcerate a juvenile offender per year vs. less than 12,000 a year to educate a young person.

                  You and the typical Fox News viewer have a lot in common.
              •  Who is FDL? (0+ / 0-)

                oh, now I remember, Firedoglake, a place I've looked at only a few times.

                The banks have a stranglehold on the political process. Mike Whitney

                by dfarrah on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 04:46:59 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  I've never been there. Lots of their (0+ / 0-)

                  stuff is posted here, or used to be.  Cross-pollination I guess.

                  I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

                  by I love OCD on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 06:38:28 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

        •  Huh? The Recovery Act passed 2/13/09, (7+ / 0-)

          just three weeks after President Obama's inauguration. That was immediate, decisive, and effective.

          Suskind doesn't have a corner on truth.

          The sh*t those people [republicans] say just makes me weep for humanity! - Woody Harrelson

          by SoCalSal on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 11:15:22 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  it was full of compromises to the Republicans (3+ / 0-)

            which undermined its effectiveness because Obama thought if he went along with their emphasis on tax cuts (less effective stimulus), he'd get some Republican votes. But the House Republicans who had led him to believe they might support this plan did a Lucy-and-the-football on him and gave him not a single vote.
            I don't know if Geithner was part of the problem or not, but people like Krugman say that although the stimulus bill did some good, it needed to be bigger and have a much higher % of the money going into real activity rather than tax cuts.

            We're not perfect, but they're nuts! -- Barney Frank

            by Tamar on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 12:35:44 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  That isn't how I remember it at all. (7+ / 0-)

              The House passed the proposal as offered. The Senate didn't have 60 Dem votes. Susan Collins, Olympia Snowe, and Arlen Specter were willing to vote for the bill if they could amend it. Susan Collins was responsible for changing much of the stimulus to tax cuts, like 40% tax cuts. The Senate then passed it. Additionally, the administration didn't know (because the information wasn't available at the time) how really large the hole was. They came up with that number based on the best information they had at the time. While Paul Krugman said it wasn't enough, he acknowledges that it wasn't the fault of the Obama advisors.

              •  I'll have to do some research because while I (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                HappyinNM

                agree with the Senate part of what you said, I'm pretty sure that Obama came to the House with a bill that already incorporated a lot of the Republican demands.
                I'll let you know what I find out.

                We're not perfect, but they're nuts! -- Barney Frank

                by Tamar on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 03:15:33 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  There are finite ways to stimulate the economy, (0+ / 0-)

                  and the Recovery Act had some of every one of them. In your research, check whitehouse.gov. You'll find the Recovery Act is very progressive.

                  The sh*t those people [republicans] say just makes me weep for humanity! - Woody Harrelson

                  by SoCalSal on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 06:12:53 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

            •  Those tax cuts were not mere sop to republicans, (0+ / 0-)

              they were an expedient way to give money to the middle class and low income assistance. The Recovery Act had a good mix of items: green energy, infrastructure, tax cuts, etc.

              Of course more stimulus was needed, still is needed. Former administration officials are on record saying they thought in January 2009 that they'd get more stimulus bills passed. And the administration did propose more stimulus bills that passed the House when Pelosi was Speaker, but didn't pass the Senate, with one exception, as I recall. With that exception, legislators carved out 80 percent of the White House proposal.

              The sh*t those people [republicans] say just makes me weep for humanity! - Woody Harrelson

              by SoCalSal on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 05:08:17 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  Apparently, I read something (0+ / 0-)

            wrong.

            The banks have a stranglehold on the political process. Mike Whitney

            by dfarrah on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 05:04:07 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  The amount Obama asked for wasn't enough. (0+ / 0-)

        But it was Summers who cut it down.

    •  Geitner (13+ / 0-)

      That is just not true.  The senate and the need for Republican votes and Ben Nelson and Joe Lieberman's vote are the reasons.  You can mostly thank Olympia Snow.  She whacked off money that would have gone to the states and saved jobs.

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