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View Diary: Geithner Draws line in sand: No Rate hikes for 2% = No Fiscal Deal. Also, SS off table! (**Video) (259 comments)

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  •  two points for the professional left : (8+ / 0-)

    (1) President Obama had to prove to the American people that he was not the one who was being unreasonable. He had to show that he was willing to make reasonable compromises. Now, he can draw lines in the sand without being pilloried in the press resulting in president willard. He does not have reelection to face.
    (2) The consequences there, Paul Krugman argues, were much more severe then they are now. There were potentially very serious economic consequences that would take place very shortly if a deal was not reached earlier. Now, the tax cuts for the middle class can be restored retroactively and we still have 2 months according to him.

    I know it is fun to argue that you are much smarter than the President, but I don't want you to hurt your arm clapping yourself too hard on the back. And I am not quite certain how your comment is productive or relevant - other than the all important self-applause.

    •  good summary. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      We're not perfect, but they're nuts! -- Barney Frank

      by Tamar on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 12:39:28 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Two points for the namby pamby center (4+ / 0-)

      1) President Obama always had the option of coming forward to prove to the American people that he was going to fight for the middle class which was struggling but forcefuly making the case for middle class oriented policies.  He opted to read the American people as wanting some kind of bipartisan healer, which I think was a dramatic misread of the public mood after Bush.  So, this notion of needing to appear 'reasonable" is no more than unproven supposition.  Sure, the admininstation felt that was important, but that judgment is not self evident.
      2) Sure the consequences were different, but this discussion has never much been about not reaching a deal, but rather about what kind of deal to reach and how.

      And of course, we don't yet know how this approach will turn out, but there's a lot to be said for the notion that those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it.  I think we can say that the conciliatory precapitulation model did not work particularly well.  Thus, it is important to watch these negotiations to see how things go differently (if at all) in order to get a general sense of which makes political sense.

      In any event, it clearly seems that the noisy rabble rousers have had some success in moving the debate to the left that had been presumed impossible by others.  Thus, we should question going forward this idea that the left should be quiet because advocacy cannot change the terms of the debate.  Advocacy clearly has had an effect here, as many here knew or suspected it would

      Hay hombres que luchan un dia, y son buenos Hay otros que luchan un año, y son mejores Hay quienes luchan muchos años, y son muy buenos. Pero hay los que luchan toda la vida. Esos son los imprescendibles.

      by Mindful Nature on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 12:55:10 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Please remember you and I follow politics (5+ / 0-)

        and these topics closely. However, most voters, unfortunately, are not well informed and do not follow it.
        And the press is actually damn conservative, if you ask me.

        This "namby pamby centrist" :

        (1) is 100% pro choice
        (2) strongly favors Medicare for All
        (3) strongly supports Gay Marriage
        (4) Supports EFCA
        (5) Supports Cap and Trade
        (6) Supports either strongly reforming or abolishing the filibuster
        (7) prefers a direct democracy
        (8) Supports a constitutional amendment to overturn Citizens United
        (9) has the following as favorite US Senators and Senators elect : Bernie Sanders, Sherrod Brown, Barbara Boxer, Elizabeth Warren and Tammy Baldwin

        oh and favors socialism compared to our oligarchy .

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