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View Diary: CO2 Emissions Rate Grew 3.1%/yr for 2000-2012: Catastrophic Exponential Growth (134 comments)

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  •  nchristine - China is using hydro where they can (2+ / 0-)
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    randomfacts, basquebob

    but wind and solar aren't reliable 24/7/365 sources of electric power. Many in China still have no access to electricity and coal fired power plants are relatively inexpensive and can be regionally located. China is pursuing an all of the above (coal, nuclear, wind, solar, hydro) energy plan to provide more electric power to rural areas and highly reliable 24/7/365 to urban and industrial locations. The challenge for the Chinese (and Indians, Brazilians etc.) is that their growing middle class want the same things as Americans:

    Electric washers and dryers
    Private automobiles
    Air conditioning
    HD TVs and other consumer electronics

    The leadership in China will always pursue policies that they believe are in the best interest of China. Even though they have a meaningful percentage of all the people in the world as their citizens they do not take a world view of climate change, or anything else.  

    "let's talk about that"

    by VClib on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 07:39:51 PM PST

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    •  How do you convince a nation or nations that (7+ / 0-)

      the very reason that we live lives of comparative luxury is a door we want closed for them. Why should they (in thier minds) do without the advances that ease our lives and settle for less when we won't give up a damn thing. I can remember all throught the 80s and 90s and the dark years of Bush asking "whats the MPG or how does it heat water or how much water would growing this require, etc..." and having people look at me as if I were nuts. We don't want to give up anything without a replacement lined up if it doesn't cost too much in lifes pleasures.

      I still assert the answer is changing the framing from upcoming disaster to changing our lifestyles and spending through changing how we live and what we expect to have to live. It has driven me crazy for years that everyone on my street has thier own mower , thier own washer and dryer, thier own lawns and gardens, cars, bikes, pools, hot tubs,... and they work 40 to 60 hours a week to afford all the lights and gifts at Christmas , not to mention the holidays being pushed fo rincreased consumption justification like Halloween, Valentines day ... Lights for freaking 4th of July for petes sake. Huge piles of clothes and shoes and toys and ...

      We need to see a different way that is appealling to both the haves and have nots... But I ask again why the hell should they trust us enough to do without what we have when we are still seeking to gobble up more then our fair share to support our overconsumption? Why do 2 people need a 5000 sf house like my bro-in-law ... they have to heat/cool the freaking place not to mention the cost to the environment to build such an elephant. He, as a republican refuses to believe we are causing GW as he jumps in one of his 3 planes and flies somewhere for the fun of it. Or how about my beloved republican son who loves NASCAR and sees no problem with wasting fuel for entertainment. He has ATVs for everyone in his family and I am sure the economy as it is structured loves him and his kind. His wife refused to visit us for the holidays because she would miss Black Friday in LA... Yeah shopping is so freaking important. We are freaking shopholics who have to have hours of work that leave a large unemployed pop in our own country to pay for our shit. Everyone  who has little has a hard on to become a Romney who can treat themselves like Pashas... Thats why they voted for him... they don't care about GW and they could care less about endangered species... give em lots of alcohol cheap and Nascar and the hope of one day being to step  on others below them as they have been stepped on... I have met too many just as I describe...Not evil but warped by our system into being willing victimizers of others to get thier points and to shop for every piece of crap they admire.

      One last comment : Why do you think their output has gone so high so fast??? My answer is US and our hunger for every piece of crap we can get... If 5 bath towels is fine then go for 20, throwing out any that are no longer perfect... If 10 pairs of shoes leaves you feeling deprived then pick up some cheap labor, transferred carbon emission/energy use shoes brought back to the US via fuel chugging/carbon producing ships.. By all means one should not have to live without that lime green pair of shoes  unless of course you are Chinese or Taiwanese or ...

      We outsourced more then jobs... we sent carbon emissions to China for the production of what we consume and they want jobs as badly as we do so they took the work. But by doing so we added the cost of transporting the completed crap back here. Consumption based on slave labor and transfer of "in front of your face" environmental consequences

      Fear is the Mind Killer...

      by boophus on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 09:32:04 PM PST

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